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theMeat is offline
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08-29-2017, 06:16 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by brooklynreefers View Post
if he leaves the lights off now, what will happen when he turns them on ? what is absorbing the phosphate from the tap water while the lights are off?
it doesn't just disappear overtime. unless of course he doesn't run lights over his tank ever. just common sense, he needs nutrients. he doesn't need excessive phosphate that comes with with tap water
If he has a fuge, which I heard no mention of, then he can leave the fuge light running. Either way leave tank lights off while cycle spikes. When cycle is complete do a water change and good to go
 
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08-29-2017, 06:22 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by jck16 View Post
The goal of the nitrogen cycle consists of 2 primary parts: you want to culture the bacteria that convert ammonia (NH3 and NH4) into nitrite (NO2) and then you want to culture the bacteria that converts that converted nitrite (NO2) into nitrate (NO3). The nutrients you speak of in tap water (namely phosphates (PO4) and nitrate (NO3)) will culture organisms (other bacteria species including cyano and algae) that have nothing to do with the bacteria species you want to culture to "cycle" your tank. Don't worry, they're going to bloom once the cycle is over anyway

Plus, I want to reiterate that tap water contains copper and lead as well as these "nutrients". Which will ALL be present in your system until they are diluted to natural seawater levels (an order of several 1000-10000x less than the concentration in tap water in NYC).

Please do not use tap water within your reef system at all.
there is copper and lead in natural seawater. Using NYC tap water for the cycle is in no way a problem.

My 220 was filled with tap water from LI at start up. At around 160 ppm contaminates. That was 21 months ago. Have done one water change, and not because nutrients went up, but for trace elements. Pretty well stocked and fed, humming along fine.
 
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08-29-2017, 06:23 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
If he has a fuge, which I heard no mention of, then he can leave the fuge light running. Either way leave tank lights off while cycle spikes. When cycle is complete do a water change and good to go
I have a current ramp timer pro led light system

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08-29-2017, 06:26 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by CJRIZZOTTI View Post
I have a current ramp timer pro led light system

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On display?

Do you have refugium?
 
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08-29-2017, 06:37 PM
  #25  
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On display?

Do you have refugium?
No refugium i use the berlin method i have a aqueon proflex sump with aquaC urchin S protien skimmer

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08-29-2017, 06:44 PM
  #26  
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No refugium i use the berlin method i have a aqueon proflex sump with aquaC urchin S protien skimmer

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Yup. Leave light off while cycle is spiking to avoid algae taking hold. Did you watch video I posted?

You will see ammonia spike, then quickly come down as nitrites start to spike. Then nitrites will fall as nitrates rise. These fall quick so if you're not testing regularly you could miss it. Next and finally you'll see nitrates rise. Nitrates will not come down quick and you'll need to do a water change if it levels off above 10-15ppm. Then put lights on and skimmer and start adding stock slowly.
 
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08-29-2017, 06:46 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
Yup. Leave light off while cycle is spiking to avoid algae taking hold. Did you watch video I posted?

You will see ammonia spike, then quickly come down as nitrites start to spike. Then nitrites will fall as nitrates rise. These fall quick so if you're not testing regularly you could miss it. Next and finally you'll see nitrates rise. Nitrates will not come down quick and you'll need to do a water change if it levels off above 10-15ppm. Then put lights on and skimmer and start adding stock slowly.
Send the video in a message must've missed it

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08-29-2017, 09:27 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
there is copper and lead in natural seawater. Using NYC tap water for the cycle is in no way a problem.

My 220 was filled with tap water from LI at start up. At around 160 ppm contaminates. That was 21 months ago. Have done one water change, and not because nutrients went up, but for trace elements. Pretty well stocked and fed, humming along fine.
Re-reading my original post, I thought I had done a better job implying that lead, copper, phosphates, nitrates, etc. are all present in natural seawater but at extremely low concentrations several 100-1000x less than that found in tap water. Maybe not.

I really don't think it's fair to CJRIZOTTI, who is trying to start off their tank based on advice from strangers, to hear an opinion that has no scientific basis other than a single anecdote (yours).

Here's an example: the EPA considers the maximum level of copper in drinking water to be 1.3mg/L. In a 75 gallon system, if NYC/LI tapwater is about that concentration, that equates to a total of 369.08mg of copper present. The average natural concentration of copper in the oceans is 0.00025mg/L according to one source. In a 75 gallon system, that should equate to a TOTAL of 0.071mg of copper. In other words, you are introducing 5198.31x the amount of copper present in seawater by using tapwater.

And that's just copper alone. If our goal when setting up our tanks is to duplicate as best we can the environment our critters come from (it is), then someone who sets up their system using tap water has already failed to do that. Just something to think about.

Last edited by jck16; 08-29-2017 at 09:34 PM.
 
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08-29-2017, 11:50 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by jck16 View Post
Re-reading my original post, I thought I had done a better job implying that lead, copper, phosphates, nitrates, etc. are all present in natural seawater but at extremely low concentrations several 100-1000x less than that found in tap water. Maybe not.

I really don't think it's fair to CJRIZOTTI, who is trying to start off their tank based on advice from strangers, to hear an opinion that has no scientific basis other than a single anecdote (yours).

Here's an example: the EPA considers the maximum level of copper in drinking water to be 1.3mg/L. In a 75 gallon system, if NYC/LI tapwater is about that concentration, that equates to a total of 369.08mg of copper present. The average natural concentration of copper in the oceans is 0.00025mg/L according to one source. In a 75 gallon system, that should equate to a TOTAL of 0.071mg of copper. In other words, you are introducing 5198.31x the amount of copper present in seawater by using tapwater.

And that's just copper alone. If our goal when setting up our tanks is to duplicate as best we can the environment our critters come from (it is), then someone who sets up their system using tap water has already failed to do that. Just something to think about.
You sound really smart but....
Explaining the nitrogen cycle. Really?
Drama much? You're playing with words. You research the levels of copper in tap water and share what is the epa's maximum level of copper allowed, and set that as your standard for copper in your "example". Then the math you did for omg drama. Really? When the truth is that's the level, 1.3mg/L, at which the epa says you must treat to get it lower. And the fact of the matter is nyc tap water is .007. So, for drama, " if our goal when setting up our tanks is to duplicate as best we can the environment our critters come from" or, whatever you said before about not being fair to op by giving bad advice, than you should have advised him to ad copper to the tap water to get it the .071 that most seawater contains.
Yes, I checked it, and you. Thought maybe I should. Thought maybe I've been paying attention and doing it wrong for decades anyway. And maybe just got lucky again and again.

Now stop with the drama and stick around, you may learn something

Last edited by theMeat; 08-30-2017 at 12:29 AM.
 
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08-30-2017, 12:41 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by jck16 View Post
Just my suggestion: leave the live sand, drain all the CONTAMINATED water above it, and refill with RODI + salt.

There will be a lot of things that just happen to be out of your control in a closed system like a reef tank. Why make the contents of the water you're adding to it one of them?

As for skimming during the cycle, I honestly don't think it matters unless you're using fresh rock from the ocean where a number of organisms continuously die off which will slow down the nitrogen cycle simply because the decay will cause less dissolved oxygen for the aerobic nitrifying bacteria to use to thrive. You'll be doing a large water change after the cycle anyway to remove any other compounds that may have built up during the cycle and to replenish depleted ions (I'm in the camp of not doing any water changes during the cycle unless you made the mistake of adding in livestock before the cycle was complete).
You are suggesting 2 conflicting ideas. If you're cleaning, curing, whatever you want to call it, the live rock to put into an already cycled tank than yes you should run the skimmer. But live rock's die off will only fuel the cycle and help it complete. Running the skimmer will take out what you need to complete the cycle. You could take a piss in the tank and that would help start the cycle. The best thing to do with live rock from the ocean, when cycling a new tank, is to blow it off with a turkey Baster or the likes every few day, week or so.

Althou I'd recommend using dried rock because then there's no danger of adding pests, and your not paying for water because rock is sold by the pound. Would also recommend rinsing the rock, live or dry, as good as possible before it goes into the tank.

Last edited by theMeat; 08-30-2017 at 12:50 AM.
 

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