Low Alk high mag and Calcium

[Paolissimo]

My 12gal nano tank reading today are all our of whack.
Callcim is 550
Magnesium is 1500
and Alk is way low 3.8
Phospate 0.01

I been using ESV for the last two water changes, more or less for about a month. I dose everyday kent Nano reef part A & B.
I have a mixed reef, a few sps and quite a few lps, fish and a clam. What I will do to bring the reading down is to stop dosing and just do water changes with ESV salt. I know for a tank this small I shouldn't dose anything. My question is this, can high Mag and Calium bring alkalinity down? So if that is the case, by bringing down mag an calc, would alk increase?
Thanks.

 

[PHILYD1]

I am having a similar problem right now, cal 400 MG 1380 alk 5.6 and cant seem to get it to come up, i did read that a new substrate would be cause for alk to be used up faster then expected and i have a new substrate so might be my problem

 

[Archreefer]

As soon as I seen the topic title I knew what salt you were using before I even clicked on it. This problem is becoming very common with ESV salt, just do a little research you'll see. My suggestion is switch salts, ESV is not at all what it is cracked up to be garbage salt. I had the same problem, took me two 200gal mixes and loss of many corals before I figured it out.

 

[mbg75]

As soon as I seen the topic title I knew what salt you were using before I even clicked on it. This problem is becoming very common with ESV salt, just do a little research you'll see. My suggestion is switch salts, ESV is not at all what it is cracked up to be garbage salt. I had the same problem, took me two 200gal mixes and loss of many corals before I figured it out.

It's not the salt...i'll bet the problem is he is dosing without testing...if cal is high, u stop dosing it...
Looks like u are just dosing both daily at equal amounts...
I bet when u dose the Alk, it just precips out.

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[cryptics]

Archreefer,

Where are you getting that this is common? Just did a google search for ESV LOW Alk and didn't find anyone complaining. I did see a bunch of people complaining about Tropic Marin. Just curious because I use ESV and my alk is around 8.5 which isn't low per say but it gets used up quick so i have to dose.

 

[Archreefer]

Do some digging on other forums on low alk problems, and you will see most are using ESV salt.

 

[motortrendz]

my tank uses alk at almost double calcium.. ae you measuring your water when making salt corectly? making sure its right when u do waterchanges? and what abt top off? if your dosing A&B blind at equal parts that can cause this too.. mag is high too, odd.. do you dose that as well?

 

[Paolissimo]

I check my parameters once a month, with salifert test kits. Before ESV salt I used Instant Ocean salt. And I always dosed Kent part A&B to compensate for the lack of trace elements not found in IO salt. My last batch of IO was bad, it gave me high numbers of calcium, I did some digging and what I found out was that IO had a bad batch of salt shipped to retailers that spiked calcium. I immediately stopped using it and purchased ESV, because everybody I spoke to loves it. I mix ESV salt by weight with a digital scale, so I am assuming it's accurate. This is what I think it's happening, and I won't know for sure, for another week or so. ESV contains all the trace elements, by me dosing every day, I am adding way too much Mag and Calcium to the system (and this is my original question) and those two combined lower alkalinity. It seems that my system doesn't use up all those trace minerals, so the logical conclusion is that I do not need to dose. What I will do tomorrow, is test a fresh batch of water freshly mixed to see what I get. My tank looks normal, I didn't lose any corals and they don't seem in distress, but my sps growth is non existent, they just are not growing. Interesting enough I have a red table frag and it's growing, it might be my eyes but everyday the plug where it's glued is more and more covered and new branches can be seen popping out daily. Not sure what to make of it, because like I said all my other sps seems to have stopped growing.

 

[Paolissimo]

my tank uses alk at almost double calcium.. ae you measuring your water when making salt corectly? making sure its right when u do waterchanges? and what abt top off? if your dosing A&B blind at equal parts that can cause this too.. mag is high too, odd.. do you dose that as well?

Mag is part of the Kent part A&b dosage. I am not sure what you are asking about top off. I use regular ro/di water in a container, I don't add anything there. I measure esv salt by weight with for the recommended 5gal dosage.

 

[mbg75]

Check your test kit on a batch of new water to make sure the kit is good.
Do a water change to try and even out your parameters, then if the Alk is still low, bring it up slowly.
Test Alk daily till it gets up to a normal level.

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[Arati]

you cant add alk all at once. it needs to be added slowly over time. if it turn white and flaky its wasted. also though adding alk once a day like calcium just doesn't work for me so I drip it with a craptraption of air tubes and a1gal jug. a dosing pump would be a better idea.. haha

 

[Paolissimo]

Did a water change today. Fresh mixed 5gallon ESV saltwater has excellent parameters:
salt 1.026
kh 8.9
Calcium 450
Magnesium 1350
Since I stopped dosing anything in my tank, things are improving..not by much.
Today my readings were:
Magnesium is 1500
Alkalinity 4.1
Calcium 500
It looks like as calcium goes down, alkalinity goes up.
I will test tomorrow to see what the readings will be.

 

[cowfish]

Calcium and alkalinity are inversely/negatively correlated. If one goes up, the other goes down. High Calcium makes it dfficult to raise alkalinity. Stop dosing calcium and and continue to add alk buffer. I'd test the water every 3-4 days to check on the progress. Baking soda is a great alk buffer and it's cheap. The amount needed will depend on the water volume of your tank and the desired alkalinity.

Raise alkalinity gradually. A sudden change in alk will stress and kill many types of corals.

 

[Boomer]

Calcium and alkalinity are NOT inversely/negatively correlated unless one or the other or both are high, as it casues the precip of CaCO3. High Calcium can make it dfficult to raise alkalinity, just as high Alk can make it difficult to raise Calcium,

The real reson behind some salts like SeaChem Labs Salinity and maybe ESV, is they are made from anhydrous salts are and not hyrated salts. Such salts HAVE to be mixed slower and/or at coloer temps or the immediate area of where the salt is added causes very high Alk, pH and Calcium causing the precip. of CaCO3.

Paolissimo


It looks like as calcium goes down, alkalinity goes up.

Can't happen. As Calcium goes down it will take Alk with it. For every drop in Calcium of 20 ppm there will be a drop of 2.8 dKH. However, the reverse is not ture as many reactions also use up Alk. So, as the Calcium goes down the Alk will drop even more. Meaning, if the Ca++ dropped 10 ppm / day the Alk will drop 1.4 Dkh + that used up in other reactions. So, the Alk may drop 2 dKH / day. This is what Motortrend was getting at. I will add that low Mg++ can make both the Alk and Ca++ drop even faster.

Things are looking better but the Ca++ and Mg++ are still to high. Watch the Alk as it is getting some what low. But as cowfish says do not try to raise it to fast.

 

[Paolissimo]

Hey guys thanks for the explanation. Boomer after posting this thread I kept reading about the issue, and ofcourse I stumble upon a reefkeeping.com article by randy holmes-farley. I read it a couple of times, since the article is a bit technical and very deep. But in the end I figure that calcium would not bring alkalinity down. I haven't tested the water since the last water change, because I been out of town, I will test either tomorrow or the following day. I haven't added anything to the tank, so I am hoping that the levels will be more balanced. Corals do not seem stressed but I haven't noticed any growth, even after 4 days of not looking at the tank, so that is not very encouraging .

 

[cowfish]

Calcium and alkalinity are NOT inversely/negatively correlated unless one or the other or both are high, as it casues the precip of CaCO3. High Calcium can make it dfficult to raise alkalinity, just as high Alk can make it difficult to raise Calcium,

The real reson behind some salts like SeaChem Labs Salinity and maybe ESV, is they are made from anhydrous salts are and not hyrated salts. Such salts HAVE to be mixed slower and/or at coloer temps or the immediate area of where the salt is added causes very high Alk, pH and Calcium causing the precip. of CaCO3.

Paolissimo


It looks like as calcium goes down, alkalinity goes up.

Can't happen. As Calcium goes down it will take Alk with it. For every drop in Calcium of 20 ppm there will be a drop of 2.8 dKH. However, the reverse is not ture as many reactions also use up Alk. So, as the Calcium goes down the Alk will drop even more. Meaning, if the Ca++ dropped 10 ppm / day the Alk will drop 1.4 Dkh + that used up in other reactions. So, the Alk may drop 2 dKH / day. This is what Motortrend was getting at. I will add that low Mg++ can make both the Alk and Ca++ drop even faster.

Things are looking better but the Ca++ and Mg++ are still to high. Watch the Alk as it is getting some what low. But as cowfish says do not try to raise it to fast.

Live and learn. :happysad: