What different methodologies are used for Freshwater tanks?

[Anonymous]

Unlike most people my first and only tank has been a saltwater tank that went from a FO to a Fowlr to what it is today, a poor man's reef.

So, how different is keeping freshwater fish?

There is no skimming right?

What else changes? How about the ph and temp?

Are undergravel filters still in for freshwater tanks? How about canister filters?

How about lighting? I realize there is not really any needed for fish, but for planted tanks how much lighting is required?

Did I miss any other differences?

I am not really going to be setting up one, but I have a friend who failed miserably at it and I was looking to help them out a bit.

 

[Anonymous]

So, how different is keeping freshwater fish?

The fish are less sensitive to water chemistry, however different fish may prefer different water chemistries (low pH vs high pH, soft vs hard, etc), depending on their natural habitat origins.

There is no skimming right?

Correct. Skimming doesn't work in freshwater.

What else changes? How about the ph and temp?

Depends on the fish. Even if it's off, though, the fish'll still survive, though they may be stressed & not breed, for example.

but for planted tanks how much lighting is required?

Anywhere from 1 watt per gallon to many watts per gallon... For more than 2 watts per gallon, however, CO2 dosing is recommended, so the plants can grow fast enough to out-compete algea. Some plants require higher light in the first place.

 

[Anonymous]

Are undergravel filters still in for freshwater tanks? How about canister filters?

They are still used (canisters especially for planted tanks, for minimal surface agitation to prevent aerating the CO2 out of the water), however biowheels are quite popular.

 

[Anonymous]

With a small fish load and plenty of plants you don't need a filter at all. Sound familliar?

 

[Anonymous]

With a small fish load and plenty of plants you don't need a filter at all. Sound familliar?

Are you his alterego?

Freshwater sounds so easy, I have the stuff to set up a tank, actually I have enough to set up several tanks truth be known....



Does the age of the bulb matter like it does in Saltwater?

 

[Anonymous]

one edit to the PH thing. fish can survive in water than is less than ideal pH reading. what they are sensetive to is the shift in either direction. freshwater shrimp are especially sensetive to fast pH changes and can be considered a miner's canary. freshwater fish can be acclimated by making sure the change is gentle. although i'm sure someone will speak up and say, "i did it" ... I would consider discus and deepwater angels to be an exception to the idea that FW fish can tolerate funky pH.

For methodologies, I think it all pertains to planted tanks and there is not a clear division like "reef, fowlr, etc" . regular FW tank with filter is just that. water in a box with filter. you feed fish and mechanically remove waste.

you do have things like dutch style planted vs. amano style planted vs biotopic imitation

 

[Anonymous]

Kunckle:

You might try the leiden or balanced system. Just plants, sand, water, light and fish. and no water changes.

I disagree that you need to limit the fish load. My 4 year old 10g and 30 fish including 6 or more reproducing female guppies. With plattys I get a stable population of 15-20 fish that have lasted for up to 6 years.

Just my .02

 

[Anonymous]

....

I am not really going to be setting up one, but I have a friend who failed miserably at it and I was looking to help them out a bit.

Maybe I missed it but what did your friend specifially do? I had many failures until I went leiden also. As did my wife's son Cal.

 

[Anonymous]

beaslbob

Tell us more about leiden & planted tanks... I did a search on "leiden" in www.plantedtank.net & nothing came up. Do you have any good links for this method? How does lighting strength & CO2 dosing figure into this system?

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

beaslbob

Tell us more about leiden & planted tanks... I did a search on "leiden" in www.plantedtank.net & nothing came up. Do you have any good links for this method? How does lighting strength & CO2 dosing figure into this system?

Thanks.

I was afraid at first I had misspelled it.

The method is named after a public aquarium in leiden holland which used the method in their tanks around 1900 or so. Anyway a long time ago.

I personally consider it a modification of the leiden method to use high lighting and co2 dosing. Which I don't use.

Basically it is the reliance on plants to provide the main filtration to the aquarium. In my case the only filtration.

My FW since 1979 have been sand, water, plants, fish, and light.

If you are interested perhaps a new thread would be interesting.

Bob

 

[highwayman]

What else changes? How about the ph and temp?

As stated f/w is not as sensitive to PH as the saltwater set ups. On my 50 gal unit I keep the PH between 7.5 to 7.8 and don't let it get above 8.0

The temp is kept at 80.

Under these conditions the fish will be active and with what I have (mostly mollies and tetras) have very little losses.

Still go with a cleaning crew, I have a few bottom feeders and algie eaters...

 

[Anonymous]

....

I am not really going to be setting up one, but I have a friend who failed miserably at it and I was looking to help them out a bit.

Maybe I missed it but what did your friend specifially do? I had many failures until I went leiden also. As did my wife's son Cal.

You know, without seeing pictures of your beautiful tanks that have been set up for however long I don't even want to take any of your advice.

I am basing that of course on your amazing track record in the salt water forums.....

 

[Anonymous]

btw cheese, i'm pretty sure that you'll need well over 2watts/gallon to be able to use CO2 as the limiting growth factor


AND the 'per gallon' criteria is just as useful in FW systems, as it is for salt (basically, it isn't useful at all )

 

[Anonymous]

....

I am not really going to be setting up one, but I have a friend who failed miserably at it and I was looking to help them out a bit.

Maybe I missed it but what did your friend specifially do? I had many failures until I went leiden also. As did my wife's son Cal.

You know, without seeing pictures of your beautiful tanks that have been set up for however long I don't even want to take any of your advice.

I am basing that of course on your amazing track record in the salt water forums.....

And your friend may very well be like Cal in this thread:


http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020

 

[Anonymous]

....

I am not really going to be setting up one, but I have a friend who failed miserably at it and I was looking to help them out a bit.

Maybe I missed it but what did your friend specifially do? I had many failures until I went leiden also. As did my wife's son Cal.

You know, without seeing pictures of your beautiful tanks that have been set up for however long I don't even want to take any of your advice.

I am basing that of course on your amazing track record in the salt water forums.....

And your friend may very well be like Cal in this thread:


http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020

I read that thread when you wrote it, I tire of your inability to post pictures proving how good your methods are. I have seen absolutely nothing anywhere on this board that would make me want to follow one iota of advice you spew so readily....

 

[Anonymous]

btw cheese, i'm pretty sure that you'll need well over 2watts/gallon to be able to use CO2 as the limiting growth factor


AND the 'per gallon' criteria is just as useful in FW systems, as it is for salt (basically, it isn't useful at all )

2.6 - 2.8 wpg, depending on your plant selection.

 

[Anonymous]

In general, marine fishes are more sensitive to pH fluctuations than freshwater fishes. However, pH sensitivity will vary with species. In addition, because of EVERY body of freshwater has a different pH,KH,GH,conductivity,etc, every freshwater fish is adapted to a specific sort of chemistry.

But, since until only recently, it has been common practice to simply use whatever freshwater was availible. Thus most fish are raised in 'tap' water which can vary in chemistry from region to region. The result, is a captive population that can survive in many different water types of water. Wild fish are most definately more sensitive. But, as I alluded to earlier, its a case by case basis...you can't just say that freshwater fish aren't pH sensitive.

This can be compared to the marine habitat. Chemically speaking the different oceans are fairly uniform...ie chemistry in the tropics of Central America are very similar to that of the chemistry in the Hawaiian islands. There may be differences between latitudes. In addition, the ocean has a HUGE buffer capacity...so that in nature the pH never fluctuates to any significant degree. Thus marine fishes are adapted to a relatively static chemical environment, as compared to a freshwater habitat that is comparably dynamic.

 

[Anonymous]

So, how different is keeping freshwater fish?

Instead of concentrating on salinity and alkalinity, you concentrate on pH, GH, and KH. GH is the calcium and magnesium (etc) dissolved in the water. In most instances you don't need to keep track of salt...which at that low of a concentration they use conductivity. KH is essentially the alkalinity, it is what determines your buffer capacity. The balance between fish/plants/KH will determine your pH.

All freshwater systems have a different ratio of pH,KH,GH. It is starting to become more popular to attempt to better replicate those conditions. The result has been spawning of fish that had previously been thought to be 'impossible' to breed in captivity.

EX:
................pH.............KH............GH
Amazon....6.5-7.0....0-3dKH.....0-5dGH
Rift Lake...8.2-8.6......15-19......20-30

There is no skimming right?

There are freshwater skimmers, but its not practical for most purposes.

Are undergravel filters still in for freshwater tanks? How about canister filters?

UGF have fallen out of usage in most cases. Hang on the tank 'power filters' are popular for small to medium sized tanks. The bio wheel is popular, though most serious keepers would prefer an AquaClear. Cannisters are popular on medium sized tanks...though they can be a pain in the butt. Overflows are generally reserved for large tanks 75-90+...in that case, a standard wet n dry is highly efficient.

How about lighting? I realize there is not really any needed for fish, but for planted tanks how much lighting is required?

I'd say a minimum of 1 watt per gallon, but make sure you use the right spectrum as well. Another thing that you should keep an eye on is your alkalinity. pH & KH will determine the concentration of CO2 in the water...if the KH is low (<2) there will not be much CO2 dissolved in the water regardless of the pH. But, if you raise the KH and then lower the pH, you will have a higher CO2 conentration. Consider the following chart that will show how CO2 changes with pH and KH.

LINK

You can lower the pH using dissolved CO2 gas (which dissociates into carbonic acid) or you can add an acid to your tank. In some instances (with moderate KH 3-6) you can adequately lower the pH using peat moss and modest fishload will lower the pH adequately. At higher KH (6-10) you can add a dry 'acid buffer' to help keep the pH low. REMEMBER, when you add acid to a base the gas is released rapidly, this can kill fish. Make sure you've got adequate water movement when you do this, and never change more than 50% of the water at once.

 

[Anonymous]

i don't get all of you watt/gallon folks-they are completely unrelated and irrelevant to each other



just as in saltwater-depth of water column and species requirements are the ONLY relevant factors for determing light intensity requirements

volume is no indication of what water depth will be

a 10 gallon tank built to be two feet tall does NOT have the same wattage requirements for efficient co2 usage as a 10 gallon tank built to be 6" tall
:roll:

this whole issue peeves me even more than people who think that 'hqi' means 'a double ended bulb' :evil:

 

[Anonymous]

i don't get all of you watt/gallon folks-they are completely unrelated and irrelevant to each other

Well, its only a rule of thumb...watts will give you a general idea of intensity and volume will give you a general idea of distance from the bulb.

Type of plant will also change the equation...much more so than differing types of corals, imo.