Another reef turning planted

[Anonymous]

We took the reef tanks down a few months ago and I don't miss them. I do miss having a tank though.

I got my first reef in 1998, before that I kept planted tanks or African ciclids. I ran CO2 for my plants by mixing sugar and yeast in a soda bottle, and it would never have occurred to me to drop money on something like a CO2 tank or regulator for an aquarium. Ha! If only I knew what I was in for with reefs!

Reef tanks have completely destroyed any previous tank frugality I held onto. After taking them down I realized I could have a really nice planted tank that (hopefully????) took less electricity and less expensive equipment to run, although this time I would have a real CO2 tank and not mess with the yeast.

I have a 60 gallon tank that I really like the dimensions of, and would like to use. I really like small colorful tetras, like cardinal tetras, also the smaller gouramis, and I have a soft spot for groups of corydoras. In one of my last freshwater tanks I had before reefs, my corys spawned and I raised a nice batch of them. The roving herd of baby corys was so cute!

In the past I always kept corkscrew val, but I always had shorter tanks. I really like the look of vallisneria and think maybe I will go with the bigger version this time since I have a taller tank? (That's called "jungle val" right?)

Finding a good place to research this is not coming easy, most of the message boards I found while searching have very low traffic. Is there a "Reef Central" of planted tanks? I really want to see what current knowledge is about lighting and such. Are all freshwater fish farmed these days? One reason I got out of reefs is the environmental impact of removing these reef animals for my enjoyment. I don't want to buy some fish and find out I am supporting something unethical. I also don't care about having anything super rare or unusual. Just want some nice green plants and cute fish to look at.

 

[Anonymous]

I presume there is some active R/C like forum for planted tanks. But don't know.

FWIW I don't use co2, ferts, circulation, filters, or water changes on my fw planted tanks. Just the tank, substrate, lights, plants and fish.


my .02

 

[Anonymous]

Reef tanks have completely destroyed any previous tank frugality I held onto. After taking them down I realized I could have a really nice planted tank that (hopefully????) took less electricity and less expensive equipment to run, although this time I would have a real CO2 tank and not mess with the yeast.

Absolutely. Electrical usage really is just a fraction of what you'd use on a comparably sized reef tank, and hardware cost is pretty minimal. A light fixture of between 120 and 180 total watts would be more than plenty for pretty much anything you'd want to keep in a 60 gallon, for example.

In the past I always kept corkscrew val, but I always had shorter tanks. I really like the look of vallisneria and think maybe I will go with the bigger version this time since I have a taller tank? (That's called "jungle val" right?)

There are lots of different species of vals, most of'em large. The "jungle" ones get pretty big, yeah.

Finding a good place to research this is not coming easy, most of the message boards I found while searching have very low traffic. Is there a "Reef Central" of planted tanks? I really want to see what current knowledge is about lighting and such.

Nothing with traffic that high, no. The one I personally think most highly of is APC, http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/index.php

Just take a lot of what you hear from them with a bit of a grain of salt.

Are all freshwater fish farmed these days? One reason I got out of reefs is the environmental impact of removing these reef animals for my enjoyment. I don't want to buy some fish and find out I am supporting something unethical. I also don't care about having anything super rare or unusual. Just want some nice green plants and cute fish to look at.

Not all freshwater fish are farmed. It depends on species, and quite a lot of even common species are still wild caught because it's just easier and cheaper than farm producing them in numbers. Otocinclus catfish, for example, as well as many bread-and-butter tetras even.

However, the environmental impact is fortunately almost nil for most species. There's a very short list of species I would avoid purchasing wild caught fish from... galaxy rasboras, Axelrod's rasbora, most of the "L"-number plecos... because of diminishing habitat/overcollection concerns. But they are very, very much a minority.

But if you wanted, you could absolutely, easily stock a tank with nothing but farm-bred freshwater fish.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm having to second think even having a freshwater tank. I had this idea they could be thrown together for maybe a quarter of the price, but once you throw in decent lighting (I'm only talking T5s here), C02, substrate (of course I want to buy the Amano stuff), plants (they seem really pricey over here) etc, it actually starts to add up. I'm looking at maybe $2000 for a tank built to my specs. Though I could get a kit tank and get it down to around $1250, the lighting would be a couple of T8s and a crappy filter.

Laura, really like the sound of the fish list you have there. I have the same fondness for Corys. Not much can beat a school of them fussing around. 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Well, if it helps any, I can break down the cost of what I'm using in my 15 gallon...

Two 2 x 48w T5 fixtures at $60/ea = $120
Eheim 2213 canister = $60
ADA system 72 CO2 deluxe w/solenoid = $270
ADA substrates = about $60
drop checker = about $15

Or about $525 in hardware, although it's worth pointing out that had I brought a traditional 5 lb CO2 system I coulda spent the same amount of cash and been able to outfit a tank of up to 30-40 gallons or so. The interesting thing about freshwater plant setups is that most of the cost is exactly the same whether you're setting up a 10 gallon tank, or a 55 gallon, or a 100 gallon. This makes small tanks porportionately more costly (dollars spent per each gallon), but does mean that if you want to upgrade in the future there isn't much new you'd have to buy.

For plants, check out http://www.aquaspotworld.com/index.php? ... d6930f1981 who will ship to the UK. Unfortunately, I think you have to eat the cost of a phytosanitary certificate (about $30). Also, you can checkout Tropica's dealer list... they're in germany, and really the best aquatic nursery on the planet.
http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

 

[Anonymous]

Laura, really like the sound of the fish list you have there. I have the same fondness for Corys. Not much can beat a school of them fussing around. 8)

Heh. Try these corydoras...

Corydoras hastatus. Grows to be a little bigger than a dime, and schools and swims in mid-water.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, if it helps any, I can break down the cost of what I'm using in my 15 gallon...

Two 2 x 48w T5 fixtures at $60/ea = $120
Eheim 2213 canister = $60
ADA system 72 CO2 deluxe w/solenoid = $270
ADA substrates = about $60
drop checker = about $15

Or about $525 in hardware, although it's worth pointing out that had I brought a traditional 5 lb CO2 system I coulda spent the same amount of cash and been able to outfit a tank of up to 30-40 gallons or so. The interesting thing about freshwater plant setups is that most of the cost is exactly the same whether you're setting up a 10 gallon tank, or a 55 gallon, or a 100 gallon. This makes small tanks porportionately more costly (dollars spent per each gallon), but does mean that if you want to upgrade in the future there isn't much new you'd have to buy.

For plants, check out http://www.aquaspotworld.com/index.php? ... d6930f1981 who will ship to the UK. Unfortunately, I think you have to eat the cost of a phytosanitary certificate (about $30). Also, you can checkout Tropica's dealer list... they're in germany, and really the best aquatic nursery on the planet.
http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

Thanks for all the info cj. I suppose I have been too ambitious on what filter I need! I was looking at the Professionel 2 series, but I guess the classic would be fine if it works well. The lighting will still be a reasonably big cost for me (my wife will not accept anything that looks vaguely tatty or homemade), as will the tank/cabinet, but you've still reduced the cost by maybe £100/$200, so maybe I can reduce it still further...

 

[Anonymous]

IMHO if you want inexpensive you might try something like this:

Lighting: $7.00
substrate: $3.00
plants: $5.00
tank: $0.0
stand: $0.0
Filter: $0.0
CO2 system: $0.00


:wink:

my .02

 

[Anonymous]

I am currently trying to decide on lighting. I have one of those 150w HQI lights that I had for a reef nano, and was thinking about getting another since I have a center brace on this tank I would nee two. Although I really want to get away from MH lighting.

T5s intrigue me but I have never used them before. This tank I am considering is a 65gallon (36X18X24). What lights should I use? I will definitely have CO2.

I just registered at APC. This is going to be fun.

 

[Anonymous]

If it weren't for the brace, I'd say your 150w single halide would have been perfect. Using two of those would definitely be overkill, and a potential source of problems.

For T5 lighting, I'd look at something like either of these in 36" lengths...
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12772
or
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=16770

The second option works out significantly cheaper, but you'd need two of the fixtures. Either way you'd end up with 156w of T5s, or around 2.4 watts per gallon.

 

[Anonymous]

IMHO if you want inexpensive you might try something like this:

That would get me sleeping on the couch. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the info cj. I suppose I have been too ambitious on what filter I need!

To be honest, plenty of folks are running their tanks without a filter at all, just a powerhead or two for some current. A heavily planted tank really doesn't need a lot of filter at all; I consider the eheim on my 15g to be overkill.

Pretty much everything a biological filter is good for, the plants do themselves. It's nice to be able to run some mechanical and chemical filtration, though.

 

[Anonymous]

Well dang, I have just been reminded that the 65 that I was planning to use had been leaking when we took it down.

So I think my next train of thought will be to find a nice size tank that doesn't have a center brace and use my single 150wHQI on it!


Any suggestions???? 8O


One of my last planted tanks had a cool plant that grew from a bulb, it shot a stem up and had what looked like a lily pad. It was a gift from an LFS employee and he didn't tell me what it was called. I think that would be pretty sweet in an open top tank. Maybe it would bloom for me it I had mh? I know my fish would be more limited open top, but I would love to look down at the plants.

 

[Anonymous]

you could always use eggcrate to prevent fish from jumping out.

.02

 

[Anonymous]

I just dug this book out from storage. Pretty good guide for the non-expert.

Peter Hiscock's Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants

 

[Anonymous]

Well dang, I have just been reminded that the 65 that I was planning to use had been leaking when we took it down.

So I think my next train of thought will be to find a nice size tank that doesn't have a center brace and use my single 150wHQI on it!


Any suggestions???? 8O

40 gallon breeder.

One of my last planted tanks had a cool plant that grew from a bulb, it shot a stem up and had what looked like a lily pad. It was a gift from an LFS employee and he didn't tell me what it was called. I think that would be pretty sweet in an open top tank. Maybe it would bloom for me it I had mh? I know my fish would be more limited open top, but I would love to look down at the plants.

Assuming it wasn't a banana plant (very common, and I assume you're familiar with them) it was probably a dwarf lilly, like nuphar japonica. And yes, most species of dwarf lilly will bloom if you keep an open top tank - with or without MH, just so long as the lighting is good. Freshwater plants need a LOT less light than corals do.

Lillies do block a lot of light from getting down into the tank, though. Might limit your options in other plant selections.

 

[Anonymous]

Laura, really like the sound of the fish list you have there. I have the same fondness for Corys. Not much can beat a school of them fussing around. 8)

Heh. Try these corydoras...

Corydoras hastatus. Grows to be a little bigger than a dime, and schools and swims in mid-water.

These look very intriguing. Not sure how easy it would be to find them where I am, but I like a challenge. 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Assuming it wasn't a banana plant (very common, and I assume you're familiar with them) it was probably a dwarf lilly, like nuphar japonica.

No, not a banana plant. I will check out that lily when I get this thing up and running.

I have settled on the 40 gallon breeder, and will use the 150 HQI for light, although fairly certain I will get a new bulb. I think 14K is likely too blue!!

This project will likely wait a while, as I have confirmed that when I took down my last planted tank, my mom kept some of my cooler aquascaping stuff in the attic, and I want to drive out and get it but will wait until snowstorm season is past.

Petrified wood, drift wood, core drillings, even my black sand! Probably other stuff that I have forgotten. I think the core drillings have nice potential in a larger tank like a 40.

 

[Anonymous]

I have settled on the 40 gallon breeder, and will use the 150 HQI for light, although fairly certain I will get a new bulb. I think 14K is likely too blue!!

Yeah, I wouldn't use a 14kk over a fw planted. Too unnatural looking. But... I suspect the plants themselves wouldn't mind. Plenty of PAR for them from those bulbs.

I've had a few conversations with folks on the fw planted boards about k ratings, and some of the ideas that community has on color temperature are.... well.... crackpot. People have insisted that 10000K tubes have melted their plants, encouraged algae, even given their fishes ich.

But to be perfectly honest, 10000k bulbs should work just fine. Some of them have PAR output almost as good as the old Iwasaki 6500Ks, so I can't imagine they'd have any problem growing healthy plants. Considering that 2 of my 4 t5 bulbs are 10000k, I feel pretty confident about that

 

[Anonymous]

IMHO if you want inexpensive you might try something like this:

That would get me sleeping on the couch. :wink:

:lol: :lol: +1