Hey anybody know where I can buy a tank real cheap on the we
- Thread starter Darkreignn
- Start date
I agree with Rover, the cost of shipping wopuld well out weigh the cost of buying new. Look in your local papers classifieds and most areas have a "trader" type magazine. you should be able to find something in one of those.
Rayjay, maybe this guy can afford a new tank but chooses to spend his money wisely.
As far as staying away from the hobby if you can't afford a regular price tank, don't worry about it. You don't need a pile of money to have a decent set up. You can use SD sand for the substrate. You can use base rock and seed it with a bit of live rock. You can get some frags from local reefers and if you shop around you can often find fish at around half of the normal asking price. Its just a matter of how much do you want how fast.
On top of this there are alot of DIY projects out there.
_________________
Oliver Lang
Rayjay, maybe this guy can afford a new tank but chooses to spend his money wisely.
As far as staying away from the hobby if you can't afford a regular price tank, don't worry about it. You don't need a pile of money to have a decent set up. You can use SD sand for the substrate. You can use base rock and seed it with a bit of live rock. You can get some frags from local reefers and if you shop around you can often find fish at around half of the normal asking price. Its just a matter of how much do you want how fast.
On top of this there are alot of DIY projects out there.
_________________
Oliver Lang
well said afss
sounds like rayjay as "cut few cost corners" himself...from his website: My preferences for saltwater tanks are to run NO fluorescent lighting, and bare bottom berlin style filtration. My stands, skimmers, and hoods are all homemade.
[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: dredawg ]</p>
sounds like rayjay as "cut few cost corners" himself...from his website: My preferences for saltwater tanks are to run NO fluorescent lighting, and bare bottom berlin style filtration. My stands, skimmers, and hoods are all homemade.
[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: dredawg ]</p>
Will probably start a flame war here but... <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
How do you think that the LFSs get their tanks? Do you think Oceanic and AGA have local shops all around the country where they build tanks for each LFS in thier backyard? No, the LFS has the tank Shipped from AGA or oceanic. Oceanic and AGA both sell to distributors who then sell to dealers or retailers. Many times a particular tank gets shipped several times before it gets to the end customer. Why doesn't AGA or Oceanic sell direct, you might ask? They protect their distributors, dealers and retailers by only selling to distributors and dealers. For now. That way the distributor, dealer and/or retailer get to make some money on the sale, albeit more in some cases than others. One LFS quoted me $200 more than another here in Knoxville.
I don't necessarily disagree with this system, since the idea is that you will probably go back to the place where you get the tank to get fish, liverock, etc, etc. It is definitely frustrating when you are searching on the web for a good deal and you can't find a single tank for sale. I mean, this hobby is expensive enough as it is. I do think the logic is flawed in that it would probably be cheaper to buy direct from oceanic/AGA and have it shipped once to your door rather than three or four times along with mark up at each step. Also, I bought the tank from one LFS here in town and I frequent another, negating the "buyer will return and buy livestock, equipment, etc" theory.
I am sure that in the near future, possibly when the economy recovers there will be a manufacturer that will sell tanks direct.
My point here is that the reason you can't buy a tank on the net is not about shipping, but more about distribution channels.
E
How do you think that the LFSs get their tanks? Do you think Oceanic and AGA have local shops all around the country where they build tanks for each LFS in thier backyard? No, the LFS has the tank Shipped from AGA or oceanic. Oceanic and AGA both sell to distributors who then sell to dealers or retailers. Many times a particular tank gets shipped several times before it gets to the end customer. Why doesn't AGA or Oceanic sell direct, you might ask? They protect their distributors, dealers and retailers by only selling to distributors and dealers. For now. That way the distributor, dealer and/or retailer get to make some money on the sale, albeit more in some cases than others. One LFS quoted me $200 more than another here in Knoxville.
I don't necessarily disagree with this system, since the idea is that you will probably go back to the place where you get the tank to get fish, liverock, etc, etc. It is definitely frustrating when you are searching on the web for a good deal and you can't find a single tank for sale. I mean, this hobby is expensive enough as it is. I do think the logic is flawed in that it would probably be cheaper to buy direct from oceanic/AGA and have it shipped once to your door rather than three or four times along with mark up at each step. Also, I bought the tank from one LFS here in town and I frequent another, negating the "buyer will return and buy livestock, equipment, etc" theory.
I am sure that in the near future, possibly when the economy recovers there will be a manufacturer that will sell tanks direct.
My point here is that the reason you can't buy a tank on the net is not about shipping, but more about distribution channels.
E
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by esmithiii:
<strong>Will probably start a flame war here but...
How do you think that the LFSs get their tanks? Do you think Oceanic and AGA have local shops all around the country where they build tanks for each LFS in thier backyard? No, the LFS has the tank Shipped from AGA or oceanic. Oceanic and AGA both sell to distributors who then sell to dealers or retailers. Many times a particular tank gets shipped several times before it gets to the end customer...
...I do think the logic is flawed in that it would probably be cheaper to buy direct from oceanic/AGA and have it shipped once to your door rather than three or four times along with mark up at each step.
E</strong><hr></blockquote>
Huh? Actually the LFS gets the tank shipped for free by their distributer Royal, Central pet, etc, making the markups a grand total of 2 times.
Do they even sell tanks online? Sounds like a case for your LFS.
<strong>Will probably start a flame war here but...
How do you think that the LFSs get their tanks? Do you think Oceanic and AGA have local shops all around the country where they build tanks for each LFS in thier backyard? No, the LFS has the tank Shipped from AGA or oceanic. Oceanic and AGA both sell to distributors who then sell to dealers or retailers. Many times a particular tank gets shipped several times before it gets to the end customer...
...I do think the logic is flawed in that it would probably be cheaper to buy direct from oceanic/AGA and have it shipped once to your door rather than three or four times along with mark up at each step.
E</strong><hr></blockquote>
Huh? Actually the LFS gets the tank shipped for free by their distributer Royal, Central pet, etc, making the markups a grand total of 2 times.
Do they even sell tanks online? Sounds like a case for your LFS.
I know exactly how I get my tanks. There is a big warehouse in Atlanta, one is North Carolina, and one in Florida. As long as my order is over a certain amount their are no shipping costs for me. And it is convenient because I'm usually getting 3-4 pallets of "other stuff" at the same time making it easier on the wholesaler. Furthermore, most LFS's that I'm aware don't mark their tanks up that much ans many sell them for just above cost. They want you to buy the tank, so you'll buy all of the marked up accessories. Hence the packaged discounts. Sell the tank at cost make your money on the merchandise. So your cheapest alternative is to go to a pet store and pick it up yourself. The only thing cheaper than that is buying directly from Oceanic/AllGlass (the same company). And they only deal in pallet orders. So until you want a pallet of 30 gallon tanks stick with the classifieds or the LFS.
Glenn
[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Rover ]</p>
Glenn
[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: Rover ]</p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by esmithiii:
<strong>
My point here is that the reason you can't buy a tank on the net is not about shipping, but more about distribution channels.
E</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was asuming they were looking for a used tank.
If you buy a tank used and add the shiping to that you are going to be looking in the same area for price as buying from a dealer. Shipping a tank can't be cheap if you are only shipping one.
For example my father works for michelin tires, I got some tires from him for free through an employee program. He lived in NovaScotia. I lived in Miami Fl. The cost of shipping the 4 tires ground was more than half the cost of just buying the tires in Miami.
If a dealer is getting a tank they get it from the distributor who probably is also shipping a pile of other goods to the dealer therby reducing the portion of shipping directed to the overall cost of the tank.
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Colds & Flu Forum
<strong>
My point here is that the reason you can't buy a tank on the net is not about shipping, but more about distribution channels.
E</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was asuming they were looking for a used tank.
If you buy a tank used and add the shiping to that you are going to be looking in the same area for price as buying from a dealer. Shipping a tank can't be cheap if you are only shipping one.
For example my father works for michelin tires, I got some tires from him for free through an employee program. He lived in NovaScotia. I lived in Miami Fl. The cost of shipping the 4 tires ground was more than half the cost of just buying the tires in Miami.
If a dealer is getting a tank they get it from the distributor who probably is also shipping a pile of other goods to the dealer therby reducing the portion of shipping directed to the overall cost of the tank.
_________________
Colds & Flu Forum
Dark,
I do not know where you are in Joisey, but in my neck of the woods, The Want Ad Press comes out on Thursdays. Some weeks they have some pretty good deals and other weeks nothing.
Are you looking for a new or used 90 gallon? AGA, Oceanic or it doesn't matter? Sometimes Petco has AGAs on sale.
I do not know where you are in Joisey, but in my neck of the woods, The Want Ad Press comes out on Thursdays. Some weeks they have some pretty good deals and other weeks nothing.
Are you looking for a new or used 90 gallon? AGA, Oceanic or it doesn't matter? Sometimes Petco has AGAs on sale.
Monkeyboy- In some cases there is a distributor, dealer and a retailer. The manufacturer ships to the distributor, the distributor can ship to the dealer or drop ship to the retailer- either case the manufacturer, distributor, dealer and retailer make money in this case, regardless of who pays what in shipping. That is called "Mark Up". In this case, three "mark ups". I know that some retailers make little on their tank sales. Others make allot. As I said before, two different retailers (both LFSs) quoted me on the same tank from the same distributor. One was over $200 more than the other for the same SKU. I know they sell alot of tanks, too.
As for shipping pallet quantities, it is true that drop trailers are less expensive than LTLs and LTLs are less expensive than package freight. If you add up the cost of sipping a given tank from the manufacturer to the distributor (in truckload quantities) and the cost of the LTL to the retailer and then the cost of delivery to your door (My LFS charged me $50 to deliver my 180, and I am <10 miles away) that would be greater than package freight charges to your door.
The bottom line is that manufacturing costs (materials, labor and burden) on a standard AGA 180G RR are under $200. I paid $700 + Tax + $50 delivery charge. Even if shipping was twice the cost of the tank and you add 50% margin, it would have been cheaper for me to buy direct from AGA/Oceanic and have it shipped to my door. The math changes consideribly for a 30G or even a 55G because of the types of carriers I could use to get it to me.
And rover, whether you or the distributor pays shipping, someone still pays. The cost is still there and is passed on to the consumer.
My point: Buying direct would be great for everyone, except the current channel.
A used tank might be the way to go if price is a big factor and you are willing to wait for a good deal.
E
[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: esmithiii ]</p>
As for shipping pallet quantities, it is true that drop trailers are less expensive than LTLs and LTLs are less expensive than package freight. If you add up the cost of sipping a given tank from the manufacturer to the distributor (in truckload quantities) and the cost of the LTL to the retailer and then the cost of delivery to your door (My LFS charged me $50 to deliver my 180, and I am <10 miles away) that would be greater than package freight charges to your door.
The bottom line is that manufacturing costs (materials, labor and burden) on a standard AGA 180G RR are under $200. I paid $700 + Tax + $50 delivery charge. Even if shipping was twice the cost of the tank and you add 50% margin, it would have been cheaper for me to buy direct from AGA/Oceanic and have it shipped to my door. The math changes consideribly for a 30G or even a 55G because of the types of carriers I could use to get it to me.
And rover, whether you or the distributor pays shipping, someone still pays. The cost is still there and is passed on to the consumer.
My point: Buying direct would be great for everyone, except the current channel.
A used tank might be the way to go if price is a big factor and you are willing to wait for a good deal.
E
[ October 28, 2001: Message edited by: esmithiii ]</p>
Well guys, as you can tell from my web site, I certainly can afford to buy the tanks. As a matter of fact, I have 9 more waiting to be set up and am possibly buying another next weekend.
It IS by choice that I go NO's and it IS part of my hobby to build everything I can. I get a lot of satisfaction from starting, building and completing each project. I guess it's kind of like the collector that goes out and buys a restored car, for the satisfaction of seeing, driving, possesing it, compared with the other collector that loves the car AND the work that goes into the restoration project. I've noticed from the postings that many other hobbyists appear to get the same satisfaction I get from doing so.
Having said that, it is true that I can't afford to set up all my tanks with all the trimmings that many like to use. Just too many tanks.
I posted earlier just with the concern that many get started into the hobby with budgets that don't allow for success, and that usually can lead to the death of livestock.
It IS by choice that I go NO's and it IS part of my hobby to build everything I can. I get a lot of satisfaction from starting, building and completing each project. I guess it's kind of like the collector that goes out and buys a restored car, for the satisfaction of seeing, driving, possesing it, compared with the other collector that loves the car AND the work that goes into the restoration project. I've noticed from the postings that many other hobbyists appear to get the same satisfaction I get from doing so.
Having said that, it is true that I can't afford to set up all my tanks with all the trimmings that many like to use. Just too many tanks.
I posted earlier just with the concern that many get started into the hobby with budgets that don't allow for success, and that usually can lead to the death of livestock.
I may as well post my two cents worth since I'm leaving Tenecor after 12 years.
Aquariums (especially glass) are a commodity and will rarely, if ever, be sold successfully direct to the public by a manufacturer of any size. The current distribution chain is not parasitic, but has developed to provide service, selection and price benefits to the end user. Without these justifications, we would have seen much more alternative distribution already.
Manufacturers ship trailerloads to distributors, keeping the freight $/unit to a minimum, regardless of who absorbs it (just as there's no free lunch, there's no free freight). Distributors are able to provide local and regional deliveries at a reasonable or nonexistent freight charge only because they are also providing other, more profitable items. These profits also enable the distributor to warehouse and make available to the LFS a large variety of tanks and stands that would not be feasible for the store to inventory.
Nobody gets rich on tanks, especially when you examine the risks inherent in quality issues, damage problems, customer service, etc.
People who have tried to cut out the core of the supply chain (usually acrylic companies) rapidly discover that they lose a large share of the LFS business because they are now competition. These companies now have limited exposure to the public (Internet exposure will never fully supplant local availability)and the increased sales costs and customer service costs of dealing with the end user directly. Such companies find it almost impossible to maintain growth and, quite often, fold within a few years.
Tenecor has tried direct sales to make our products available in areas where we do not have established dealers. However, we would not be able to survive on the reduced sales and increased costs that abandoning our dealers would cause. The loss of volume would also increase our costs of production and, ultimately, our prices, making us less competitive and more vulnerable. It's a nasty downward spiral from there.
I could go on for a long time, but it becomes basic economics.
Mike Blomgren
Aquarium Sales Manager
Tenecor
Aquariums (especially glass) are a commodity and will rarely, if ever, be sold successfully direct to the public by a manufacturer of any size. The current distribution chain is not parasitic, but has developed to provide service, selection and price benefits to the end user. Without these justifications, we would have seen much more alternative distribution already.
Manufacturers ship trailerloads to distributors, keeping the freight $/unit to a minimum, regardless of who absorbs it (just as there's no free lunch, there's no free freight). Distributors are able to provide local and regional deliveries at a reasonable or nonexistent freight charge only because they are also providing other, more profitable items. These profits also enable the distributor to warehouse and make available to the LFS a large variety of tanks and stands that would not be feasible for the store to inventory.
Nobody gets rich on tanks, especially when you examine the risks inherent in quality issues, damage problems, customer service, etc.
People who have tried to cut out the core of the supply chain (usually acrylic companies) rapidly discover that they lose a large share of the LFS business because they are now competition. These companies now have limited exposure to the public (Internet exposure will never fully supplant local availability)and the increased sales costs and customer service costs of dealing with the end user directly. Such companies find it almost impossible to maintain growth and, quite often, fold within a few years.
Tenecor has tried direct sales to make our products available in areas where we do not have established dealers. However, we would not be able to survive on the reduced sales and increased costs that abandoning our dealers would cause. The loss of volume would also increase our costs of production and, ultimately, our prices, making us less competitive and more vulnerable. It's a nasty downward spiral from there.
I could go on for a long time, but it becomes basic economics.
Mike Blomgren
Aquarium Sales Manager
Tenecor
Inter American Pet Supply (in Canada)sells tanks at wholesale prices. They list a 180 for $325.00.
Even if you had to pay a hundred dollars for shipping you would still be way ahead of the LFS prices.
I haven't contacted them yet but as soon as I have some extra money I will.
Hope this helps
Brian
Even if you had to pay a hundred dollars for shipping you would still be way ahead of the LFS prices.
I haven't contacted them yet but as soon as I have some extra money I will.
Hope this helps
Brian
Saltwater Novice,
I worked in motor freight for years and years. While I do not have a national master freight classification book in front of me, I would guessitmate that shipping a single tank with a residential delivery surcharge and a single shipment charge and an inside delivery charge and a notification charge will add up to more that $100.
Companies like Roadway, Yellow and CF make their money picking up and delivering freight to loading docks, where there are forklifts and pallet jacks and people standing by to unload the freight.
Deliveries to a residence that requires a lift gate and a helper require a lot of extra work. Unfortunately, somebody (like you) will have to pay all of those accessorial charges.
Now, if you are talking about getting a truckload rate to cube out a 53 footer with fish tanks and delivery to your warehouse, then the cost might average out to $100 per tank.
I did not intend to burst your bubble, but to only tell you of my experiences. If you can find somebody to deliver a tank to your house for $100, then go for it.
I worked in motor freight for years and years. While I do not have a national master freight classification book in front of me, I would guessitmate that shipping a single tank with a residential delivery surcharge and a single shipment charge and an inside delivery charge and a notification charge will add up to more that $100.
Companies like Roadway, Yellow and CF make their money picking up and delivering freight to loading docks, where there are forklifts and pallet jacks and people standing by to unload the freight.
Deliveries to a residence that requires a lift gate and a helper require a lot of extra work. Unfortunately, somebody (like you) will have to pay all of those accessorial charges.
Now, if you are talking about getting a truckload rate to cube out a 53 footer with fish tanks and delivery to your warehouse, then the cost might average out to $100 per tank.
I did not intend to burst your bubble, but to only tell you of my experiences. If you can find somebody to deliver a tank to your house for $100, then go for it.
In New Zealand tanks are reasonably priced - a 150gal costs in the order of $250NZ or about $100US.
Glass is very cheap if you buy in wholesale quantities. My LFS tells me this means buying 50 sheets at a time. A large part of the cost is labor.
My LFS usually gives me the odd bit of glass I need for free.
I've always been amazed at the prices I see for tanks in the US - someone is making a hell of a lot of money.
The "glass box" is the cheap part anyway...
Glass is very cheap if you buy in wholesale quantities. My LFS tells me this means buying 50 sheets at a time. A large part of the cost is labor.
My LFS usually gives me the odd bit of glass I need for free.
I've always been amazed at the prices I see for tanks in the US - someone is making a hell of a lot of money.
The "glass box" is the cheap part anyway...
I can get an 8' section of conveyor that weighs 200 lbs shipped LTL across three states for less than $150. While it is true that you would need a dock and fork truck to unload it, there are carriers that will do residential service.
Mayr- Many companies are successfully challenging the "basic economics" that you mention. There are ways to sell direct without sacrificing your retail channel. Many of my clients have gone that route. There is little "basic economics" the the manufacturer-distributor-dealer-retailer channel unless the value proposition of your distributor-dealer portion of the supply chain is more than logistics. What I mean is that unless your dealers and distributors provide some other service other than the logistics aspect then it is cheaper to ship direct to your retailers in most cases, especially domestically. In the case of aquarium manufacturers, I doubt that many have the volume to warrant daily truckload quantities to various regional distributors. I also doubt that the distributor provides other "services" that warrant the mark up. I noticed that Tenecor sells direct and "ships to anywhere in the world." So obviously Tenecor understands what I am getting at.
Mayr- Many companies are successfully challenging the "basic economics" that you mention. There are ways to sell direct without sacrificing your retail channel. Many of my clients have gone that route. There is little "basic economics" the the manufacturer-distributor-dealer-retailer channel unless the value proposition of your distributor-dealer portion of the supply chain is more than logistics. What I mean is that unless your dealers and distributors provide some other service other than the logistics aspect then it is cheaper to ship direct to your retailers in most cases, especially domestically. In the case of aquarium manufacturers, I doubt that many have the volume to warrant daily truckload quantities to various regional distributors. I also doubt that the distributor provides other "services" that warrant the mark up. I noticed that Tenecor sells direct and "ships to anywhere in the world." So obviously Tenecor understands what I am getting at.
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