Should I Attempt the Dreaded Blue Damsel?

[ReefLion]

I have a forty gallon tank (30x18x18), and I need a fish. Right now there are a pair of medium-sized ocsellaris clowns and a small green mandarin, along with an assortment of corals. (The display tank is hooked up to a 200 gallon basement sump system, including a 70 gal. DSB refugium. The mandarin is fat and healthy.)

Anyway, I take my fiance to the LFS to look at some options, in particular some Banggia Cardinals. She thinks they're "interesting-looking," but wants something "pretty" like . . . those blue ones! Aaaarrrrggghhhh!!!!

So I'm sitting here trying to decide whether a damsel is worth a try. I'm pretty sure the clowns can defend themselves, but the mandarin is a bit small still, and quite the pacifist. On the other hand, the mandarin wouldn't be fighting for food, so there's no need to worry about that sort of competition.

Any thoughts? If I go for it, I would basically get the smallest one I could find. Would a single damsel work better than a pair, or even a small group of 3-4? I can't imagine anything more than two would be advisable. Again, the only option damsel-wise is the common blue damsel we all love to hate. She doesn't like green chromis nearly as much.

By the way, I'd love to hear some additional recommendations for any small, very bright or colorful fish that would be suitable for a reef tank of this size. Thanks.

Tim

 

[Anonymous]

ReefLion wrote:

Would a single damsel work better than a pair, or even a small group of 3-4? I can't imagine anything more than two would be advisable

one small one should be ok-two will probly fight(3-4 will get a pecking order, and weakest will die, until, maybe, you end up w/a pair)

the yellow tail blue is a bit mellower in personality- though most of the problems with the dams seem to be with fish that were introduced after they were.

flasher/fairy wrasses come to mind-also maybe 6&8 line wrasses

 

[reefsRcool]

just say no man. at some point you will be bummin when you have to tear down the whole reef to get the little buggers out. how about a pigmy anglefish or one of the smaller dottybacks?

 

[danmhippo]

Tell her to setup a tank of her own........

 

[tazdevil]

I think you'd want to stay with that bio-load. If your absolutely set on getting one, I'd have to recommend a yellowtail, as from what I've experienced, they don't tend to be as belligerent as some of the others. Then, I'd only add one (although I got lucky when I added two, they ended up being a "couple" and laid eggs every so often, till one died from investigating a powerhead that lost its cover-well-at least it was quick 8O ). On the other hand, how about a scarlet (a.k.a. Blood) or cleaner shrimp? Maybe she'd like their antics.

BTW, no pygmy angel, unless your willing to risk it with the corals in your tank. Some you can get lucky with, others will eat just about any coral they see.

 

[ReefLion]

Thanks for the replies. If I do get one, it will definitely be only one. I'm avoiding pygmy angels because of the corals, and avoiding small wrasses so that nothing competes with the mandarin. Thanks for the suggestions, and keep em coming.

I'm really not concerned with bioload at this point. I have three 1-2" fish in a 240 gallon system. I am concerned with territoriality, though, since they are all in the 40 gallon display tank.

Here's a question: what exactly will the damsel do? Will he attack my other fish? Hog all the food? Pester corals? I've just never dealt with them, so any more insights would be great.

Thanks again.

Tim

 

[tazdevil]

He CAN hog all the food, and attack the other fish. For the corals, no issues. The size tank you have (not the system) is the main limiting factor for precisely the reason you mentioned, territoriality. Also, if you ever want to remove him for any reason, prepare to dismantel the entire tank to do it!

 

[Palmetto]

The best way to add a blue damsel is to grip it between your forefinger and thumb...

... and promptly press it into the anemone. Or, if you don't have an anemone, squeeze it slightly first to be sure that it does not escape, then put it against a green brittlestar's tentacle.

Seriously, you don't want a blue damsel. They will steal your girlfriends, drink all your beer, remove those little tags off your mattresses that say never remove them, and generally make your life a wreck.

 

[cheapreefer]

The best way to add a blue damsel is to grip it between your forefinger and thumb...

... and promptly press it into the anemone. Or, if you don't have an anemone, squeeze it slightly first to be sure that it does not escape, then put it against a green brittlestar's tentacle.

Seriously, you don't want a blue damsel. They will steal your girlfriends, drink all your beer, remove those little tags off your mattresses that say never remove them, and generally make your life a wreck.

Good advice!

I put a little blue/yellow one in at about 1/2 an inch. It started out fine but became verry agressive after 6 months at 1.5". It attacked my percs, cardinal and crabs (my purmle psudo did the same). Took me a long time to get the bugger out.

 

[ZigZagZombie]

Don't do it....I had one and every time i added a fish it would bug the SH!T out of it. Chasing the new fish, flapping it's body on them too. Needless to say it's new home in my sump/refugium is perfect for it. Master of it's own kingdom.....

 

[ZigZagZombie]

Don't do it....I had one and every time i added a fish it would bug the SH!T out of it. Chasing the new fish, flapping it's body on them too. Needless to say it's new home in my sump/refugium is perfect for it. Master of it's own kingdom.....

 

[Anonymous]

i had one. i hated it with all my little black heart.

reckless. stirred up lots of sand. harrassed others. found itself a new home.

you will rue the day.

i have had fairy wrasses in a 46g with my mandarin for years without starving the mandarin out. but if thats your final decision, what about firefish?

 

[Aescleah]

i have had 2 devils in my tank for about a year the one big one has spilt the tank in two his side and everyone elses keep in mind this is a 105 gal tank. I dont dare put anyother fish in there till i either catch them or they finally die, but i aint movin any rock.hehe so more then likly they are staying.

Ashley

 

[Anonymous]

I've had two blue damsels since last December in my 58. I can vouch for the thought that many will eventually become two. I started with four.

For the most part they've divided the tank and don't interact that much anymore. I think that they're wonderful fish. They messed with the clowns and my itty-bitty yellow tang for the first couple days after the clowns and tang were added, but they rarely chase anymore. In fact, one damsel and the tang sleep in the same hole. When I added my chromis, they chased the lead one for a few days, but that was all.

It is possible that my experience is different because I have two that are approximately the same size. I also have boat loads of rock holes.

 

[ToddinAtl]

If ya put'em in...be prepeared to get nipped at constantly if ya put your hands in the tank!! There like nats and it'll really piss ya off cuz ya can't bite'em back!!

FWIW,
Todd

 

[dizzy]

I going to jump in with a little defense for the damsels. They're cheap, their hardy, they're pretty, and they can hold their own in a street fight. Some are mean as hell and some are fairly mellow. The blue devils are about a 7.5 on a mean scale of 1-10. I'm a dealer and I can pretty much afford any fish I want. I choose to have damsels in two of my main display tanks. I have a pair of starki damsels in my 220 and a pair of yellow tail blues in my 100 slim. (with my spawning true perks) Neither pair hassle their tank mates whatsoever. The starki damsel fight some with each other but the yellow tails are extremely mellow like vitz suggested. I have only had my starki damsels for about 5 years, but they are awesome and I wish to heck they would spawn. I have had one of the yellowtail blues for about 16 years and the other approaching 14. Both are under 2" and both have kept their color and look as good as the day I got them. No spawns though. If a fish is too wussy to hang with the yellow tails I would suggest leaving it at the lfs. Got to give the blue devils their due though.

 

[ReefLion]

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like the blues are just out. The tank is too compact to tolerate any real aggression. The yellowtails are a distinct possibility. If anyone has any bad experiences with the yellowtails specifically, please let me know.

Dizzy, any opinions on one versus two yellowtails? Thanks all for the info.

Tim

 

[speedy]

I enjoy my 3yellowtail damsels and never had a problem with them at all. I have a 100 gallon tank with 110lbs of live rock. They never seem to mess with any other fish and seem to get along with each other quite fine for almost 4 months now.

 

[dizzy]

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like the blues are just out. The tank is too compact to tolerate any real aggression. The yellowtails are a distinct possibility. If anyone has any bad experiences with the yellowtails specifically, please let me know.

Dizzy, any opinions on one versus two yellowtails? Thanks all for the info.

Tim

Tim,

I'm a big believer in keeping fish in pairs whenever possible. Finding compatable yellowtails should be easy and any good dealer should help you pick a couple. IMO watching the interaction between members of the same species is always better than watching a fish that is forced into solidary confinement. I think aggressive behavior might be the result of mate denial. The yellowtails are an excellent choice and seldom get the appreciation they deserve.

 

[Anonymous]

dizzy wrote:

The yellowtails are an excellent choice and seldom get the appreciation they deserve

.

agreed

fwiw-

i think that some of the coolest looking,prettiest fish can be found in the various damsel categories-one just needs to understand their nature,in order to be able to deal with their 'personality issues'.most people seem to get 'stuck' with 'em the wrong way,at the wrong time, and with a lack of understanding of their 'psychology'.(thanks to all those lfs's who recommend them for cycling :evil: :wink: )

they are colorful , active, and 'hard to kill'-if the tank is the right size,with the right 'design'(lots of 'weaving' structure-to dart around and through)-and they're added LAST-they can do very well in a 'community' tank.

i had both tomatos(3), and beau gregs(3;-2 males and a female) with a pair of maroons,yellow tang, coral beauty,eel goby,2 yellow tail 'devils'-in a 75 'low'(18"x18"x60")-the gregs spawned all the time-and the 'active' male only harrased the sub dominant one.everything but the tang and the tomatos got transferred to a 46 bowfront-and they still got along very well :mrgreen:

as long as the dam is the last addition-i think you'll be fine(especially w/ yellowtails)

fwiw-the blue devil also comes in an orange tailed species-seems also to be less aggresive than the reg.blue-but even with the reg blues,if they're tiny when you add 'em-they should leave everyone else alone, and only 'scrap' amongst themselves, as they get older-as long as you add 'em last :wink:

having said all that- because it's only a 40 gal-the yellow tails are the way to go.

good luck