T5 - Not all i thought it was

[Mouse]

I was down at the LFS this weekend when the sales rep for D&D or Deltec came round. Under his arm he had a huge 5 foot box and a big grin. We asked him waht he was carrying and it turned out to be a brand new type of light fixture based arround T5 technology. Aparently these pendants contain 6 x T5 bulbs with reflector, and are going to replace MH's as the new must have bulb. The pendant is super light, runs super cool (so no need for a chiller), and has the same life expactancy as MH's but the real clincher has to be the running costs, 40% less electrisity. The lights are also supposedly great at penetrating depth.

Now i know that in every new product theres a picture of an amazing tank next to it and everyone talks about how good it is. But i honestly think this is something really new. The tank with the T5's running on it was stocked full of SPS corals, and thats the main aim of these lights. Heres some tech info i pulled up on the bulbs.

T5 Lamp Technology "Tech Sheet"
General Tech Information
T5 lamps are smaller in size (length and width) which makes T5's well suited for the low-profile, elegant fixtures that are especially popular for upscale retail, hospitality and commercial spaces like display cases or wall-washing. Its smaller scale allows for sleeker fluorescent direct/indirect surface mounted and pendant fixtures.

It should be remembered that the main characteristic that distinguishes T5 lamps from other families of fluorescent lamps is that they are designed to peak in their lumen ratings at 95°, compared to 77° for T12 and T8 lamps. This thermal characteristic provides higher light output in confined applications where there is little or no air circulation, and it provides more usable lumens per watt in indirect fixtures.

Fixtures for T5 can offer more uniform distribution (less "hot spots"), wider on-center spacing and shorter drop lengths for pendant-mounted fixtures. T5/HO fixtures can use fewer lamps to deliver light levels similar to other fluorescent technologies.

Facilities have found applications for T5 HO lamps in coves and cornices and in new direct/indirect fixtures, like the SIMKAR TDPW, designed to take advantage of the smaller-diameter lamp. Care needs to be taken to limit the use of T5 HO lamps in low ceiling applications because this lamp is very bright and can cause discomfort from glare if not shielded properly.

Some industrial fixtures also use T5 HO lamps, and the lamp is appropriate for many applications that require a high lumen-maintenance rating of 95%. This lamp only loses 5% of its initial lumen rating in the first 40% of its rated life.

Performance Comparison
T5
HO T5
T8

Initial Rated Light Output
2900 Lumens
5000 Lumens
2950 Lumens

Nominal Lamp Watts
28 W
54 W
32 W

Initial Lamp Efficacy
104 lpw
93 lpw
92 lpw

Initial System Efficacy
89 lpw
85 lpw
90 lpw

Lumen Maintenance
97%
95%
93%

Maintained System Efficacy
86 lpw
81 lpw
84 lpw

Rated Life
20,000 hours
20,000 hours
20,000 hours

Optimum Operating Temperature
95° F
95° F
77° F


T5 lamps are available in three standard fluorescent color temperatures: cool, 4100k; warm, 3000k; and neutral, 3500k. They also have a color rendering index (CRI) greater than 80 and are rated for 20,000 hours at three hours per start. T5 HO lamps are designed in millimeter lengths and do not fit traditional 2-, 3-, 4- foot fixtures.

T5 Lamp Lengths
Nominal
Actual

T5
T8

24"
22.173"
23.725"

36"
33.984"
35.725"

48"
45.795"
47.725"

60"
57.606"
59.555"



Summary:
T5 lamps provide:

Better optical control—light can be more easily directed and more evenly distributed.
Better performance in high ambient temperatures—Peak light output @ 95°F—ideal for small fixtures.
Lower system wattage—Consuming less energy.
Dedicated luminaire prevents misapplication of fluorescent lamp type.
Lower profile, more aesthetically pleasing luminaries.

So anyone else got any info to share on these new lights. Please add as im very excited about these, and if there as good as they say they are ill be hanging them above my new system in the future.

8) and for those of you who have just bought your new aquaspacelight, sorry i couldn't have got here sooner.

 

[Mouse]

Looks like the Germans are one step ahead again, check out these T5 pendants i found on a german site.

http://www.sewatec.de/advanced_search_result.php/keywords/T5/sort/2a/page/1

Ab-Aqualine aquaspacelight - T5 FQ 4x39W 90cm €345.00
Bresslein T5 - Aquastar II 4 x 80 Watt
Giesemann System 260 sunrise T5 4x54W elektr. gedimmt 1500mm €909.00

As you can see above they allready have the Aquaspacelight in a T5 fitting, and the Bresslein in T5, and Giesemann all in T5 pendants. 8O

Heres the techy bits i could decypher on the bulbs.

Leuchtmittel T5 FQ 24 Watt Narva blue 2 - baugleich ATI Blue

i guess these are the Actinics

Leuchtmittel T5 FQ NARVA BIO light 80 Watt - baugleich ATI Sun

And i guess these are the whites.

Man, whats with selling them to the Germans first. The only reason they have the best tanks is cuz they have the best gear, no fair.

 

[Mouse]

I guess i should have posted this in the main forum.

Chucker, would you be so kind

 

[Chucker]

Evidently we're still talking fluoro's here, and one of the key selling points of MH is intensity, something which a non-point source will never truly have.

And yes. I will be so kind as to move it.

 

[Mouse]

Thanks buddy :wink:

 

[Mouse]

But from what the add says you still get the same intensity because the hoods hold like 6 of these bulbs. But i agree, that is the add.

Anyone use these or have inside industry info. :?:

 

[liquid]

The T5 designation is nothing more than stating the diameter of the bulb. T12's are standard flourescent tube diameters, T8's are a little less in diameter and T5 is even smaller. All they're allowing you to do with this "new T5 technology" is to cram more bulb into a smaller area. The lumens output that you listed in your first post is indicative of a NO flourescent that you can buy at any hardware superstore over here. And Chucker is right: we're still talking either NO or HO flourescent here and not halide. FWIW, I can have a whole hood cram packed with standard NO's and have 250 watts of power irradiating my tank or I can have one halide bulb doing the same thing. I'd rather have the halide.

Shane

 

[MattM]

For what it's worth, compact fluorescent bulbs are almost all T-5 diameter, and always have been.

The T number is just the diameter in 1/8's of an inch: T-5 = 5/8", T-8 = 1", T-12 = 1-1/2".

I don't see anything earth-shattering here.

 

[monkeyboy]

FWIW, I can have a whole hood cram packed with standard NO's and have 250 watts of power irradiating my tank or I can have one halide bulb doing the same thing. I'd rather have the halide.

Shane

Amen.

"cool, 4100k; warm, 3000k; and neutral, 3500k" So what does the color of these things look like? :?

 

[JeremyR]

I"ve seen the 4' aquaspacelight t-5. The 4' bulbs were 54 watt. You will see these replace VHO (and probably PC) IMO at some point.. the intensity is impressive, it's not like the t-8 vs. t-12 thing. It won't replace MH, but as a high end flour or supplement to MH it's great stuff. I could see fw planted tank applications too.

 

[Mouse]

The main reason why they were saying these bulbs will overtake MH's is firstly the price, both in set up, maintenance (bulbs) and running costs. Secondly they run much cooler, so theres no need for a chiler. And thirdly, because of the thin diameter of the bulbs you can fit more into a hood.

The one i saw by Deltec has 6 bulbs in them, im not sure about colour ratings or anything but i would imagine that whoever decided how many bulbs should go in the hood was aware of making them competative with the MH equivilent.

I know the T5 bulb in itself is nothing new, but these are new bulbs specifically designed for Marine/reef applications. The Deltec website says information will be coming soon.

Anyone else in the know want to share.

 

[Anonymous]

hi.
setup price: How much are the ballasts? I probably need several ballast to get as much light as one 400W MH ballast.

maintenance: How much are the bulb? Each 400W Iwasaki is about $65, and last for 1 to 2 years, if I replace the T-5 diameter bulb every 3 years, how much will that be? (I know the 6500K is way yellower than the T-5...)

running costs: I doubt that T-5 is more efficient than MH in term of lpw. Anyone have the number for MH?

 

[liquid]

Bottom line on any bulb setup is PAR/intensity. My corals couldn't care less that the T5's run cooler, are less expensive, and that I can fit a lot of bulbs in a hood. If these bulbs have a higher or equal PAR value compared to halides, then GREAT! However, this remains to be seen.

Shane

 

[Mouse]

Ok, as soon as Deltec get their stuff sorted im going to try and get a PAR rating out of them. Ive allready sent an e-mail asking for information on the T5's and ill post the replys.

 

[Dewman]

Around christmas time, i spoke with someone at Icecap and they were working on driving the T5's with one of their 660 ballasts and they developed some endcaps for them. I'm not sure what ever came of that, but they said they could get higher intensity light out of these as opposed to T12s of the same length. They had offered to send me some of this stuff but every time I called, they had changed what they were working on.
It sounds like it would be a great thing to have for someone who was looking to save a little space inside their canopy.

 

[Chucker]

The main reason why they were saying these bulbs will overtake MH's is firstly the price, both in set up, maintenance (bulbs) and running costs.

Running costs? This is an element of lighting that I find very misleading. It seems that manufacturers consistently monkey with the numbers we are fed, claiming 250w of light, but only 200w of draw (for example), and the like. Last time I checked the laws of physics, you can't get out more than you put in. The only thing you can do is use the energy you are given more efficiently.

Another thing I'd keep in mind with running costs in a scenario like this. Ask yourself how many bulbs you'd have to replace, and how often. Unless someone has created a super duper new fluoro bulb, replacement costs for multiple bulbs at shorter periods (vs. a single MH at longer ones) are going to shoot any so-called savings on your electric bill in the foot.

 

[Anonymous]

but the real clincher has to be the running costs, 40% less electrisity.

hi.
Many people are guilty of the problem. The usually comparison is to an incandescent bulb, so 40% less is not even as good as MH's efficiency.

See that 90% fat-free stuffs and got used to it as saying 10% fat, you know.

 

[ChrisRD]

Great, just what we needed, ANOTHER lighting alternative

I think there's more to the smaller lamp diameter than just cramming more bulbs in a certain amount of space. The reason I say this is because while searching some commercial lighting sites and comparing similar model lamps in these different sizes (T-12, T-8, T-5) it seems that as lamp diameter gets smaller the lamp becomes more efficient (more lumens per watt, better lumen maintenance). As MattM already pointed out, PCs are pretty much another rendition of this same idea. This is the reason T-8s have replaced T-12s as a commerical lighting standard. They can provide the same illumination levels in commercial buildings at a substantial power savings (small difference multiplied by 100s of fixtures)

All that being said, as Chucker pointed out, bulb replacement costs will probably be the limiting factor with this technology (as it is with PCs). I don't see this as an alternative to MHs, more likely an alternative to PCs. I'm still planning to buy my MH setup Just my $0.02...

 

[BCReefer]

I was looking at a like product from a local LFS. I thought that it would make a good supplement to the MH that I already have. It could get some light to areas previously not being hit by a single MH.

Cheers,
Patrick

 

[ColdZero1]

Flourecent tube? No glitter lines. If its one thing that floats my boat about MH more than anything its glitter lines. These may be a cool way to suppliment them tho.