help with lights

[Mihai]

Hi,

I have a question regarding normal output fluorescents (NO). Please
don't tell me that I need MH; I know, I just can't afford them
now. Maybe in a year or so. I don't plan to have SPS in less than a
year anyway, just softies and fish. What I have is 4x40W fixtures and
ballasts. My question is regarding the lamps.

It seems that some members use GE of Philips NO bulbs. Is this
correct? Anybody grew anything successfully under those? (soft corals,
coralline algae, etc.)

I'm asking because there are several pro and contra arguments for
those NO bulbs vs a traditional (e.g., coralife) bulb.

To start with, in "The conscientious marine aquarist", Bob Fenner said
not to use any NO that is not "full spectrum".

GE specifically answers a full spectrum FAQ on their website:

Does GE offer a truly full spectrum fluorescent lamp?

No. The currently available fluorescent lamp referred to by its
manufacturer as "Full Spectrum" has a continuous spectral power
distribution that includes a controlled quantity of ultraviolet
radiation. Applications that require the "Full Spectrum," or
fluorescent lamps with the ultraviolet radiation, are Diazo printing
machines, salt water reef aquariums, reptile terrariums, and
aviaries. As few applications require the ultraviolet part of the
radiation, GE offers fluorescent lamps with a "Balanced Spectrum"
which have only a trace of UV radiation but do provide a continuous
spectral power distribution over the blue, green, yellow and red
hues. GE offers such "Balanced Spectrum" lamps as Sunshine, Chroma 50,
Chroma 75, Cool White Deluxe, and Warm White Deluxe. Applications that
require a daylight-like balanced spectrum are art studios, museums,
medical facilities, graphic arts, color matching, etc.


On the other hand, Philips, when it shows the curves for their
colortone lamps (see figure), it shows a full, continuous spectrum. Is
this true? It also shows some spikes (but those should exist in any
fluorescent lamp, that's how they work, right?).

Besides, it seems that many reef.org members do use those lamps and
are happy with them, right?

Incidentally, the price difference between a 10,000K coralife and
a GE or Philips is 4-5 times more expensive for the coralife.


My first question is: are the Philips/GE lamps good for fish only with
live rock with some soft corals that do not want lots of light? (my
tank is a 90gal 24'' deep).

If those are good, what would you choose (what do you have if you use them),
as there seem to be *lots* of options, some that maximize the CRI, some
that have higher temperature, and yet others that have larger lumens.
I'd go for the GE daylight ultra that has 6500K and lots of lumens
(up to 50% more than others), but the CRI of 75 is not that great.
In what follows I'll list what I found from both, please let me know what
would work best (maximize temperature, lumens, CRI, etc, and why).

I read a lot about lightning, but I'm still confused. See below for
some excellent links
http://reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&n ... d=1&page=4

Philips

Colortone 50 30203-4 F40C50 40 T12 Med. Bipin
5000K, CRI 92, initial lumens: 2200, lifetime: 20000

Colortone 75,T12, Med. Bipin Product number: 046677-33464-9, Ordering Code: F40/C75
7500K, CRI 95, initial lumens 2000, design lumens 1720, life 20,000

Natural Color, 392316 F40T12/Natural Color/48" 40 T12 Med. Bipin
5000K, CRI: 92, lumens 2200, hours 20,000

Daylight Deluxe, 392340, F40T12/DayDLX/48" 40W T12 Med. Bipin
6500K, CRI 84, lumens:2325, hours:20,000


GE
Daylight ultra (13969)
6500K, CRI 75, 3050 initial lumens, 2775 mean lumens

Daylight deluxe (14654)
6500K, CRI 84, 2250 initial lumens, 1910 mean lumens


Daylight (14488)
6500K, CRI 75, 2550 initial lumens, 2240 mean lumens

Sunlight (12224),
5000K, CRI 90, 2250 initial lumens, 1870 mean lumens


Chroma 50, (13794)
5000K, CRI 90, 2250 initial lumens, 1870 mean lumens

Chroma 75 (41133)
7500K, CRI 92, 1890 initial lumens, 1630 mean lumens


Thanks a lot for your time and advice,
Mihai

 

[taikonaut]

I am sure you are aware of it, but did not say it out loud: Reef hobby brands are more expensive due to the labeling. That 500% difference is what keep the store up and running.

There is nothing wrong with the other non-reef bulbs. You can do fine with them on your setup for now. In fact, I used to put four 40watters over my 60 gal tank and get pretty nice growth of coralline and some low-lit softies.

The spikes on the spectrum is from the excited mercury atom. The rest of the spectrum is from the phosphors on the bulb. Don't read too much into a term like "full spectrum." So does it need to give off alpha radiation to be full spectrum? How about X-ray? Guess nothing is "full" completely.

 

[Len]

CRI is not a critical figure to look at when choosing aquarium bulbs. Lumens (light ouput, especially between 400-700nm, otherwise known as PAR or PPFD) is more important.

Color temperature are all correlated values and aren't exact science. Basically, the higher the color temperature is listed, the more blue output the bulb puts out. 6500K-10000K will work just fine since they simulate sunlight at various times throughout the day.

Some aquarium bulbs are simply relabeled bulbs. Some are unique however, in their blend of phosphors.

FWIW, I've always had luck with URI bulbs.

 

[Mihai]

Nope, not really, I didn't know about the reef hobby brands markup...

Does it apply to pumps as well? I'm looking to buy a pump for my return (about 1000gph at about 6-7'') and I'd love a 80% discount by buying a non-reef brand

Len, I don't know where to find the URI bulbs, any normal store would carry them (I assume that shipping prices for those preclude internet orders)?

Thanks a bunch,
Mihai

 

[srbayless]

Howdy,

I would have to agree that the reason "aquarium" bulbs are more is the lableing, for the most part. I will say that you are not going to find an actinic or 10000K bulb at Home Depot (speaking from experience). I will say that I ran a 55g (4 foot long) with 4 48" NO Philliips daylite deluxe bulbs with success. The shrooms and some softies did really well, but anything that needs alot of light will only survive and likely perish.

The other apsect of lighting is the human factor. I don't care how well your corals grow, if they look like yellow peices of rock under the lighting, you are not going to like it. That is why alot of aquarist use 6500 MH and supplement with ultra blue actinics. The overall color is much more appealing than straight 6500K.

You should be fine using just the daylight bulbs, or you can throw in a chroma 75 (higher CRI) to balance out the overall color and spectrum.

Again, for the most part what will matter most is what you find appealing. You may have to play around with the combination of bulbs to get the right look.

Good luck,

Scott.

 

[Mihai]

Yup, you're right: no actinics at Home Depot, Lowes
or Walmart. Only Petsmart has them for $25 each (more than the rest thee bulbs combined).

I also didn't find any chroma lights anywhere around. Do you know any good source of NO lights (actinics too) on the Internet? Is the shipping a killer?

Thanks,
Mihai

 

[srbayless]

Since I live in Southern Cal, I shop at Hellolights and Marine Depot. Both of these outfits are local and offer superb customer service. Their prices aren't too bad, definitely better than the local fish store, and shipping isn't so bad do to being local.

I would say check out some of the internet retailers that are local to you. I'm sure your fellow East Coast reefers can suggest good shops based on past experience.

I work for Home Depot and have tried to get some of the nicer bulbs (chroma and such) but have met with little success. The coolest deal I found at the depot would be the Lights of America flood light. It has a 65 watt bulb, and is 6500K. It costs about $30 with bulb and has a pretty effective reflector seeing as it is an outdoor floodlight. I can't say I have used one of these on my main tank, only on my sumps and refugiums.

Good luck.

 

[das75]

Can only comment on the coralline.

Have 2-40W NO on a 75g. Started with 2 Philip's F40DX (came with tank) then swapped out one for a Coralife 50/50. Was getting some coralline with the 2 Philip's but seemed increased after Coralife.

Coralline started to taper off around the time I replaced the 50/50 with Coralife Trichromatic but probably more due to dropping Ca. Recently arced out the pins on the Trichromatic and got another 50/50, haven't noticed the coralline starting again but Ca still low.

 

[ScottbytheSea]

Have four set up like you,

Settled on 1-03 URI in front for color,2-50/50 URI 2nd and fourth postion( 4th being in back hood) 1-Aqua sun URI... There roughly 20 bucks a piece( light supply co.)

Been through a few this grow coraline w/ kalkw. drip pretty dam impressive for a cheap set up.....

This spring going sps so I won't need them any more ....

Good Luck ,URI are the best in my book and for the price you can't go wrong eithr.......And I've tried A few my friend.....as I can get most of the others free from work I buy these instead.....

ScottbytheSea

 

[Mihai]

URI... they seem to be everybody's favourite.
I'll look for them. (BTW where did you get them?!).
Thanks,
Mihai

 

[JD'sReef]

I had a 29 with a double strip light (rugular tubes). I kept nice live rock and a bunch of shrooms in that tank with my fish. I actually kind of liked it because it was very low maintnece. The mushrooms looked real nice and were growing. I had one Atinic and one 10k on top, it was great. I am actually going to set it back up to play with.
Money is not the issue, the issue is with the care taker. You can make a world out of nothing as long as you pay attention to the details.

 

[Anonymous]

Hope there's still people reading this, its been 2 weeks since the last reply. But this was the closest to hit with a search. I'm going through a similar dilema, trying to find adiquate lighting. Phillips, GE & Sylvania all make some decent 6500k bulbs, even in T8 size! Unforunately trying to find them is proving harder a task, going to homedepot/lowes the only 6500k bulb they have is a single one in T12 size (excluding the round fixtures). I was planning on making a lighting setup with a bunch of these 6500k T8s & augment with white, 380-410nm & 470nm LEDS, but can't seem to find the T8s nor any answers I want. My tank is 24" deep though, and I'm wondering if the bulbs will be able to penitrate deep enough, and would rather not go the 500% markup because it says "Coralife" or some other useless crap.

Any word on T5s though? Are they still super new? closest T5 I found was 4100k, nothing any bigger than that.

 

[Mihai]

Physics, I ended up with 2xGE ultralight (for the high lumen outpu) and 2xPhillips Natural Color
(for the high CRI). I figured that for a while I don't have much to look at anyway and I don't need an actinic. If I get some cool stuff to see, I'll get 1 actinic and I'll get one Phillips out.
I bought the Phillips at Home Depot and the GE at Walmart.

Best regards,
M.

 

[PeeJ]

The actinic will make the white a little whiter. Even if you don't have any corals, I would put some sort of suppliment in there.

 

[PeeJ]

I shouldn't say whiter...perhaps "richer" is a better term.

 

[Mihai]

Man, not only that I don't have corals. I don't
have anything in the tank except for water, dead sand, live rock (pretty dead :-( ),
a bunch of feather dusters, (4mm diameter), and
diatoms. I don't really want to see them "richer"
.

M.

 

[K9coral]

added

 

[PeeJ]

Well its all personal opinion I guess.if that is your reasoning, then why have the lights at all. If its so drab and dead, then save your money