Balanced 2-part calcium & alkalinity additives - result

[s a v v o]

Having read Randy H-F's article in the April 2004 edition of Advanced Aquarist's Magazine, I recently made up the calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate solutions. I used Recipe No 2, which is half the strength of Recipe No 1.

I have a 600-litre system, consisting of a mix of LPS and SPS. I would say there is a medium level of calcium etc demand.

I use RO-DI saturated limewater as top-off. My pH runs at about 8.3 or 8.4. Calcium varies from 350-380ppm. Alkalinity is usually about 7dKH, but had dropped to 4dKH. I then started administering the 2-part solutions.

Tests for alkalinity were made by way of a Sera kit. Calcium was done using Seachem.


Day 1 Alk4 Cal380 pH8.3 Added 80ml each of Recipe 2
Day 2 Alk5 Cal380 ph8.3 Added 80ml each of Recipe 2
Day 3 Alk 6 Cal315 pH 8.5 No additions
Day 4 No measurements No additions
Day 5 Alk 5 Cal350 pH8.4 Added 80ml each of Recipe 2
Day 6 Alk6 Cal390 pH8.4 Added 80ml each of Recipe 2
Day 7 Alk5 Cal345 pH8.4 Added 80ml each of Recipe 2
Day 8 No measurements Added 80ml each of Recipe 2
Day 9 Alk5 Cal340 pH8.5 Added 80ml each of Recipe 2
Day 10 Alk5 Cal350 pH8.4 Added 160ml each of Recipe 2
Day 11 Alk 6 Cal355 pH8.5 Added 160ml each of Recipe 2
Day 12 Alk 6 Cal355 pH8.5 Added 160ml each of Recipe 2
Day 13 Alk6 Cal340 pH8.4 No additions
Day 14 No measurements No additions
Day 15 No measurements No additions
Day 16 Alk5 Cal345 pH8.4 Added 240ml each of Recipe 2
Day 17 Alk5 Cal335 pH8.6 No additions


Then a few days ago, I recorded the following:

Day 1 Alk4 Cal315 pH8.4 Added 160ml each of Recipe 2
Day 2 Alk5 Cal350 pH8.4 Added 160ml each of Recipe 2
Day 3 Alk6 Cal345 pH8.4 Added 160ml each of Recipe 2
Day 4 Alk6 Cal350 pH8.3 Added 160ml each of Recipe 2
Day 5 Alk 7 Cal 300 pH8.3

In the last lot of figures, calcium has shot from 315 to 350, stayed around there for a few days, then dropped back to 300. I was happy with the alkalinity.

In the first figures, alkalinity didn't really make it, getting only as high as 6. Calcium got to 390 on one occasion, but mainly kept to the 335-355 range.

Each time I added chemicals, it was to a fast-flowing section of the sump, and I waited a few minutes before adding the second solution. I do notice, however, that when I add the sodium bicarbonate, there is considerable cloudiness in the water.

I would appreciate your comments about my concerns in not being able to raise the calcium and alkalinity levels higher, and why there seem to be such fluctuations. I guess I was naive enought to think that as I added the solutions, I would see a gradual increase in parameters, given that they are balanced solutions. I'd also like to know why there is cloudiness when the sodium bicarbonate is added - it looks like precipitation.

Many thanks.

Les Savage
Brisbane
Queensland
Australia
Member of the Marine Aquarium Society of Queensland

 

[dot]

I'm not having a lot of luck with this mix either. I mixed recipe #1 as my pH always seems low.

On day 1 my pH was 7.8 (in the evening). I added alk until my pH was ~8.1. That was about 1/8 of a cup. I waited 30 minutes then added an equal amount of the CaCl2 mixture.

On day 2 when I woke up my pH was 7.8. Not bad as it was after the lights had been off. A marked improvement! By the time I came home my pH was 7.6?! That doesn't make much sense. I added about 35mL of alk solution and the pH was at 8.1 again. A couple of hours later I came back to my tank and WOW (!!!) it looks like a snow storm happened in my tank! Everything is covered in a baby-powder like substance. I went ahead and added the ~35mL of CaCl2, but I don't get what's happening?! My pH plummeted to 7.5 again already?!

I too get a milky white reaction when I add the alk solution. I used Arm and Hamor baking soda, baked it @ 300 degrees for 30 minutes as suggested, and mixed it with 1g of distilled water.

I used Prestone's Driveway Heat as my Calcium Chloride and mixed it with 1g of distilled water.

Any help is greatly appreciated as this seems to be making things worse, not better.

dot

 

[Len]

Hi. I've copied your post to the General Reef Discussion where you'll get more help. FYI: The Advanced Aquarist Online Magazine forums are intended for discussion of AAOLM articles.

 

[dot]

Thank you!

 

[Mihai]

Savvo, by looking at your numbers I'd say that your calcium test is screwed up. What are you using? I was told to get Seachem, I did and I'm very happy with it. There is no way your Ca can vary that much in a day (up and down).

The Alk test seems to be somewhat OK, it's consistent at least, again, Seachem will give you better precision.

dot, what are your Ca and Alk measurements? Without knowing that you're shooting in the dark. Also, why is the Ph so low? Do you have a Ca reactor? If not, I'd suspect your Ph test.

M.

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Calcium doesn't usually bounce up and down a lot day to day, so it may be a kit error.

Assuming the numbers are correct, I'd add enough of the calcium part only to get to 420 ppm, then resume equal dosing, with a larger amount until you can maintain alkalinity (which will also maintain calcium).

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Any help is greatly appreciated as this seems to be making things worse, not better.

I don't think the two part is making the pH lower if you are using the baked recipe, but if you substituted it for something else that had a bigger pH raising effect (like limewater), then you might experience a reduction in pH. Most likely, the two part is just not enough to keep your pH up. This article will help solve the pH problem:

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

 

[dodo99]

I was thinking of switching to a 2-part solution, but the LFS suggested (and uses) Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium. It seems to work okay for me, it keeps the Ca ~380-400 (using about 1/4 of the recommended dosage - as per LFS instructions), but I have to add some Kent reefbuilder once 'n a while to keep it between 8-11 dKh.

Are the 2-part solutions more effective usually? They're way more expensive...

DoDo

 

[s a v v o]

Randy, many thanks for your advice. Could you help with the concern I have that the sodium bicarbonate solution sends the water cloudy when I add it (to a fast-moving body of water or a less active area)?

I never add the bicarb near the time I add the calcium.

I use a Seachem calcium kit, and the chemicals have been freshly supplied by Seachem.

Thanks.

Les

 

[dot]

Savo, if it's any help; it looks like I'm pouring milk into the water when I add that solution as well. It disperses pretty quickly, but I've been curious about whether that's the "right" reaction as well.

dot

 

[dot]

Snowstorm question ... could my snow storm be a result of CO2 buildup? The end of this article seems to indicate a similar reaction when using CaOH2.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/c1/calciumh.asp

dot

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Snowstorms that make the whole tank cloudy are not from excessive CO2. Typically is is from limewater overdose causing the pH to go too high.

Could you help with the concern I have that the sodium bicarbonate solution sends the water cloudy when I add it (to a fast-moving body of water or a less active area)?

Usually it is the high pH (carbonate) versions that cloud the water a bit. That is just magnesium hydroxide that temporarily precipitates. It dissolves later typically and is not a concern, IMO.

I was thinking of switching to a 2-part solution, but the LFS suggested (and uses) Tropic Marin Bio-Calcium.

I don't care for the addition of Biocalcium as you need to add it dry and hope it dissolves before it lands on something delicate. Often, that hope is not met. The two part additives are a better bet, IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to thank Dr. Farley for dropping in and helping explain things. I am sure it helped.

 

[randy holmes-farley]

Thanks, beaslbob.

 

[s a v v o]

I very much appreciate your help, Randy.

Thanks.

Les

 

[dodo99]

Thanks Randy, that stuff seems to irritate the crap out of my toadstool leather. Now I add it slowly in my trickle filter so it has a chance to disolve completely. That helped out alot. Such a tempermental softie, compared to others in the tank.

DoDo