my experience with dino (and how to deal with it) understand the enemy

[homegrowncichlid]

Hi all,
just wrapping up my second (or third) dino experience in my tank this past few months, which has taught me a very simple lesson.
So I've been running my tank since this past summer, and had dinos (plus cyano) break out in my tank, which is pretty common.
I've been seeding my tank from the ocean, with different species of seaweeds, plus so many different fish from seining, that I expected to get some nasty pests.
So my first attempt with black out, and random usage of biological additives, just as red slime remover and microbacter 7, had limited success, since I didn't understand exactly what was happening and was just reading online forums on what to do, so I thought I'd just tell my experiences, and how simple they are to remedy the dino and cyano.
Red slime remover works, it somehow soaks up (destroys) all nutrients in the water, making everything crystal clear, rocks clean, perfect. The skimmer does the rest.
So after that I used microbacter 7 to out compete the last 1% of dinos with other beneficial bacteria, but didn't know how much to use, how often to use, which caused my dinos to come back pretty quickly. Cyano was wiped out after a single day, so that's not really an issue.
I also used Dr Tim's Refresh and Waste Away combo, with 3 day black out, and that also works, but this time, with the detailed instructions, I was able to beat dinos.
That is until I recontaminated my system with dried out frag racks and nets, that I used during the dino outbreak and was covered with dinos. Apparently the dinos, though dried, where still on the rack and nets (plus other equipment I was using at the time) and simply repopulated and recontaminated my system.
I literally reinserted by crusty, brown rack right into the water, and the next day, it was bubbling and alive.
I also used dino X, which also works at knocking out dinos. As a matter of fact, I just wrapped up a 2 week use of dino X, and now I'm dino free again. (I used dino X also this past fall, but since dinos came back, I thought it wasn't working that well and went to Dr Tim's products.

So what's the problem with dinos (or cyano) that it seems people have been battling them unsuccessfully for months or years and gave up?
Its recontamination from dried dino spores (spores might not be the right word for it) from nets, racks, any acclimation box, any magnets, glass 5 mL testing vials, you get the idea.
But here's the most insidious source of contamination from dried spores, which may be recontaminating you system... the sump itself. With the variable water level... well you guessed it, the dried glass of the sump itself... the hoses from the skimmer, the crusty electrical wires. These all have dried dinos on them, and while the water was being treated, the spores were riding high (and safe) in their state of suspected animation, just waiting to hatch out again, once they were submerged.

Well that's it. When battling dinos, using whichever product, they all work. Its how well you control the offspring from returning though your equipment that's the problem. If I were to use red slime remover again, I'm sure it would also be successful in destroying the dinos. It's all about how to prevent recontamination again, using live probiotics and sterilizing your equipment using 10% bleach.

Thanks. I may not be the best (or my conclusions could be way off) reefer out there, but at least I figured out what I was doing wrong.

 

[Czynot]

Dino and cyano are first form of life on earth. they are here for billions of years. They are in fresh water and saltwater. They are in the air. How do you think new tanks get dino and diatoms.
Your dino is gone, dont means it is free from your system. Your tank have a nutrient imbalance. If you allow your nutrient to bottom out, Dino will come back.

 

[homegrowncichlid]

Yes czynot, that is true. My point isn't about which method is best or effective for treatment, but to be warry of cross contamination from other equipment. As for dinos getting into our isolated aquariums, it would have to be introduced. I have recontaminated my system twice, because I wasn't careful with my dried plastic equipment, and want to save the others a bit of leg work on trying to figure out why their treatment method failed. Follow up treatments as you suggested is true and I'm currently doing that, to prevent future outbreaks.

The chances of a marine dino species being imported from our freshwater tap supply is almost zero, unless you live near the shore and have salt water intrusion into your ground water. Sure it's possible, but highly unlikely, since that water supply would be completely in the dark and the ground itself does filter mechanically. Here in Long Island, (from my ecology classes at Stony Brook) there is a balance between water supplies as municipalities switch between shore wells, and inland wells, to maintain drinking water standards. They do that by diluting salt water intrusion from the shallow shoreward wells with the deeper inland wells which are pure.

The chances of dinos dropping in from the air is again very small, unless you live near the shore.

It would then be logical to say that dino and cyano introduction into our system would be from contamination, most likely live rock (or old dry rock), old dried out sand, crusty shells, etc, in addition to the live animals we drop in, the water their in, the frag plug, etc. That one cell can cause a bloom if the conditions are right.

 

[Czynot]

I disagree with cross contamination. We can not cross contaminate What is already present in all of our tank. I do not have dino in my DT. I guarantee I will find dino under a microscope. I don’t get outbreaks because my DT Is keeping he dino at bay.
I would agree with your cross contamination if we were talking about ich and velvet.

 

[nvladik]

Hobby is contaminated with Dinos. Unless you don't plan to bring in a single fish, a single coral, dealing with contamination is impossible. I am sure I am not going to find the thread right now, this is from years ago on r2r, but the discussion surrounded contaminating tanks with dinos via cells surviving inside fish stomachs.

 

[homegrowncichlid]

Ah, interesting responses, I'll have to agree with you regarding the universal presence of dinos in all our systems and modify my original statement. Thanks guys. OK, here it goes...

Dinoflagellates as a class are all over the marine environment (including the symbiosis with corals themselves). Lets assume there are beneficial species (such as those fluorescing in corals), planktonic species (ie. red tide) and the hybrid benthic types I was referring to, specifically the pest we all observe in our ultra low nutrient systems, which settle out in daylight and form the slimy, bubbly coating over the substrate. This settling is what's preventing our skimmers from removing them, while skimming all their pelagic competitors, allowing the dinos to bloom during the daytime (while being skimmed out at night, but not enough to stop their lifecycle).

There are probably millions of species of dinos, and we may have thousands of species in our system. As we know with any closed system, cultures of anything will bloom and crash. Its after the crash that the species could be wiped out and not recover again (ie, out competed, predated upon, limiting nutrient, etc.). Overtime the diversity in our closed systems will shrink, until there are new introductions (fish, frags, water cultures, any bacterial or phytoplankon, etc.)

So, I'd like to modify my previous posts. What can be avoided is cross contamination of one of these pest species during the bloom stage, storing the excessive biomass somewhere (in a dried, hibernation state on rocks, nets, etc), then reintroducing the biomass and continuing the bloom.