Smaller of the large angels

[Zionas]

Hi all, I am new here and considering a tank that’s about 80” x 30” x 24” so just shy of 240. Wanted to go 8’ but might not have the room. I love angels and I was wondering what are the angels that tend to stay smaller in captivity (apart from Centropyge and Genicanthus) and how many I can have in these dimensions. The tank won’t be too heavily stocked but I don’t want to rehome any fish down the line. I’ve excluded the ones known to get large in captivity such as the Queen, Blue, French, Gray, Emperor and some others. So far I am keen on:

1. Majestic (P. Navarchus)
2. Blue Line / “Maze” (C. Septentrionalis / C. “Cephalareticulatus)
3. Goldflake (A. Xanthopunctatus)
4. Asfur (P. Asfur)

I am keen on these ones also because I can get them tank bred. I’d like to know the sizes they usually reach in captivity, if any get too large. Also feel free to give other suggestions. Thanks.

As for other fish, I’m going to have smaller fish.
x2 A. Ocellaris
x2 C. Starcki
x2 G. Loreto
x2 A. Flavissimus
x2 A. Macneilli

And some other smaller fish.

What’s your experience with Lemonpeels been? I can get them tank bred. Was considering Venusta / Multibar / Colini tank bred but worried even the CB ones are difficult.

 

[Zionas]

I’m happy to forego Tangs as I like angels a lot more. The tank will be a semi-FOWLR with some easy soft corals but the focus will be the fish.

 

[Timfish]

Persoanlly I would go with just the blue line and then 2 or 3 dwarfs. The Majestic and Asfur both would get to large IMO for the size tank you're thinking of. Even if in theory your tank is large enough for three or four angel in the 8"ish range it's impossible to determine the social dynamics when they become sexually mature in a few years. Dwarf angel on the other hand become sexually mature in about a year and you'll know sooner if there are issues, especially if you quarintine them all together. Also with a large tank there's less of a chance issues will arise with dwarf angels as they have more room for body size. Antoher consideration is biomass, a large majestic at a foot long could have as much body mass as half a dozen dwarf angels or more at 3-4", more body mass equals higher oxygen demand and higher levels of waste.

 

[Zionas]

Be

Persoanlly I would go with just the blue line and then 2 or 3 dwarfs. The Majestic and Asfur both would get to large IMO for the size tank you're thinking of. Even if in theory your tank is large enough for three or four angel in the 8"ish range it's impossible to determine the social dynamics when they become sexually mature in a few years. Dwarf angel on the other hand become sexually mature in about a year and you'll know sooner if there are issues, especially if you quarintine them all together. Also with a large tank there's less of a chance issues will arise with dwarf angels as they have more room for body size. Antoher consideration is biomass, a large majestic at a foot long could have as much body mass as half a dozen dwarf angels or more at 3-4", more body mass equals higher oxygen demand and higher levels of was

Persoanlly I would go with just the blue line and then 2 or 3 dwarfs. The Majestic and Asfur both would get to large IMO for the size tank you're thinking of. Even if in theory your tank is large enough for three or four angel in the 8"ish range it's impossible to determine the social dynamics when they become sexually mature in a few years. Dwarf angel on the other hand become sexually mature in about a year and you'll know sooner if there are issues, especially if you quarintine them all together. Also with a large tank there's less of a chance issues will arise with dwarf angels as they have more room for body size. Antoher consideration is biomass, a large majestic at a foot long could have as much body mass as half a dozen dwarf angels or more at 3-4", more body mass equals higher oxygen demand and higher levels of

Thanks you’re always so helpful. What tank size do you think would be more suitable for a Majestic or Asfur?

Which dwarfs do you have experience with?

 

[Timfish]

Thank you! They're not fast swimmers but they are active swimmers and likely very long lived and can get to 1' and 1' 4" respectively so I'd aim for aim for something in the range of roughly 10' by 3' by 3' or larger. (And maybe have someone in mind in your will to get them. )

 

[Timfish]

My favorites are Coral Beauty, Flame and Lemon Peel. The Coral Beauty is the one I've never seem to have issues with. Most Flames and Lemon Peels are failry well behaved but I do occasionally get one that decides to go after soemthing. A few times I've QTed them together and not had issues with them getting aggressive with each other and they make a very attractive threesome in a system.

 

[Zionas]

My favorites are Coral Beauty, Flame and Lemon Peel. The Coral Beauty is the one I've never seem to have issues with. Most Flames and Lemon Peels are failry well behaved but I do occasionally get one that decides to go after soemthing. A few times I've QTed them together and not had issues with them getting aggressive with each other and they make a very attractive threesome in a system.

Sounds good, I like these species. Do the Flames and Lemonpeels get aggressive though? Especially the Lemonpeel I have heard from some people that they tend to be nasty.

And on a side note is your 17-ish year old Coral Beauty still alive?

 

[Timfish]

Individual personality always trumps experience. Becasue they WILL get aggerssive once they've established a teritory in a system, even coral beautys, is why I always keep dwarfs together for awhile before palcing them in a system. Once they're established in a system the odds of successfully adding another dwarf is very low.

You're thinking of an old Lemon Peel I lost. I lost a 13/14 year old Coral Beauty in 2020 (summer 2007 - spring 2020). (That was 2020 we were talking about them on RC ? )

 

[Zionas]

Individual personality always trumps experience. Becasue they WILL get aggerssive once they've established a teritory in a system, even coral beautys, is why I always keep dwarfs together for awhile before palcing them in a system. Once they're established in a system the odds of successfully adding another dwarf is very low.

You're thinking of an old Lemon Peel I lost. I lost a 13/14 year old Coral Beauty in 2020 (summer 2007 - spring 2020). (That was 2020 we were talking about them on RC ? )

I see. I can actually get Venusta, Colini and Multibars as captive bred fish (Lemonpeels too) but from what I’ve read elsewhere even the captive bred versions of these more difficult species have issues surviving.

What are your thoughts on having a pair or trio of dwarfs? Have you tried with the three species you usually put in your systems? (Of the same species)

Yeah that Lemonpeel lasted a while, how big was it when you got it?