How big is our hobby?

[bstruss]

I am trying to get a feel for how big the reef keeping hobby is in the US. My goal for this is kind of a feasability study as I would like one day to aquaculture corals on a commercial basis. I am already doing so on a small basis and have one outdoor prop tank and plan to expand to another 600 gals. I am obviously not looking to get rich (nor to loose my shirt!) and I know it is one of those things that requires a large fortune to make a small fortune. However, I'm hooked but feel like my fire could be lit a little more if I could get some demographics, trends, projections, etc. on the hobby. Also, from the aquaculture standpoint, what aspects of the hobby would be more successful (not necessarily which individual corals as I have read Anthony Calfos book on this).

Thanks for any help
Bailey--

 

[flameangel1]

Bailey--
Many of us already raise our own corals.
Personally, I never buy propagated corals as I do that myself.

What we really NEED, is tank raised Fish !!!!!!
That is where the real shortage is.

 

[bstruss]

Judy,
I'm glad you mentioned that because the more I think about it, the serious reef keepers grow their own (or trade) frags just like yourself. The non-serious reefers are not going to shop for frags on the internet but are usually going to be suckered into buying non hardy corals (or dyed) from their LFS that they can't take care of in the first place. I am currently growing some rare ricordia, zoanthids, and leathers but beyond that don't think I could make a go of it. My next step is to investigate whether a smaller salt water fish operation can compete with the big guys like ORA farms etc.

Thanks for the feedback.
Bailey--

 

[flameangel1]

Bailey,,
I am a LFS and propagate 75% and more of the corals I sell.

As far as competeing with ORA and C-Quest etc- try to breed and raise fish that they do not do yet. I guarantee you can sell all you can grow out!!!
There are plenty of tank raised clowns, pseudochromis and gobies already, but a needed supplier of the Zebrasomas and Acanthurus, would have plenty of sales !!!

 

[bstruss]

Thanks again for your feedback Judy. Can you suggest other marine fish that are possible to raise (and not face competition from the big boys). How about Bangaii?

Bailey--

 

[MaryHM]

As far as how big the reef keeping hobby is, I don't have statistics. The aquarium hobby is 2nd in popularity in the US only to photography. That includes freshwater as well.

I think most of the big companies (ORA, C-Quest) are working on any fish they think can be "easily" bred and that is marketable. Captive breeding of fish is a toughie. I heard Martin Moe speak a few years ago in Hawaii about his defunct effort in this arena. There is a company in Tahiti (I think) that has bred maculosus and asfur angels. These are both high dollar, marketable fish. If you could do those fish and then figure out if their breeding habits are similar to other large angels (imperators, blue face, majestic- all the cyanide bread and butter) then you'd have a chance. But God only knows how much money and time it would take. The question is do you have the capital to sustain yourself with NO profit for 3-5 years on the HOPES that you could breed these fish commercially???

 

[flameangel1]

bstruss,,
Yes, both C-Quest and ORA were breeding Bangaiis, but say they are much too expensive to raise profitably.
As Mary HM said, most of the fish are much too expensive to raise and then try to make a profit.
And contrary to what some on this BB say, they would not be willing to pay enough to make breeding and raising these fish feasible at present.
It would take dedication and PRIDE to do it and accept that there is very little money in it. (if not just a loss)
As is the wholesale and retail saltwater business as a whole , if done ethically.
Wild caught Bangaiis sell for $15.00 retail, and I can not even buy them wholesale tank raised at that price.
Never mind the shipping/box fees/ice and hot packs etc.

 

[bstruss]

Yes, I agree with what's been said and think that one day maybe smaller operations could suceed when and if post larval growout to marketable size becomes a reality. This link is one article that I read that alludes to a possible future niche.

http://www.reefs.org/library/article/b_mankin.html

 

[MaryHM]

Here's food for thought:

At Marine Ornamentals '01, C-Quest had a tank set up. I was commenting to the owner, Bill Addison is his name I think, what gorgeous, robust looking Rainfordis he had. He replied "Yep, cost me $70 a piece". Anyone for a $150 Rainfordi Goby??

 

[Mike King]

Breeding Bangaiis for profit is tough because of several things:
1) Bangaiis only have a few young at a time, 24 average per brood.
2) Breeding pairs must be kept by their selves or they will kill each other unless tank is real large 250gal +. :twisted:
3) They are not frequent breeders, a pair that spawns 4-5 times a year is a good pair.
4) They are mouth brooders and carry their young for 18-21 days.
5) They breed best in tanks with a lot of cover.
6) Fry are very difficult to remove from tanks with a lot of cover.

This all adds up to a fish that’s too costly to breed commercially in a high profit operation (space = $) especially when you’re a for profit business. The small backyard Hobbyist/Mariculture center can however
Easily propagate and raise them. In fact, most of the known literature on breeding Bangaiis has come from hobbyist :wink:
Small operations can raise them much easier than the large, the trick to do it is, Do them as Secondary Products. Pair them off in your coral fragmentation grow out tanks, and provide them with sheltered areas. Artificial long spine urchins can be used to gather the young and they can be easily raised on the new cyclops (sp) food and live baby brine shrimp.
You can even do them in a normal reef tank using artificial Long spine urchins,

Just Had to stand up for a great hardy reef aquarium fish, with high mariculture possabilites espically for the average hobbyist

That said, anyone ever read anything on biopiracy?
just had to toss that in

I think the program proposal I’m working on is getting to me....

AS for information on the hobby and coral imports.......
The information on the hobby and impotration is out there, a good starting place is The Global Trade in Corals by Edmund Green and Frances Shirly.
ISBN 1 899628 13 4 More info can be found but most is unreliable and/or hard to interpret.
If you need some basics check out Marine Ornamentals Trade: Quality and Sustainability for the Pacific Region (the section on trade has some usable info).This was posted on MAC's web site may still be....
Environmental News service also has a fact sheet ot two on the trade of corals.
The Coral reef task force has some of the Cites data on their website also.
The Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) web site also has a fact sheet on the trade.
I'm presently working on Coral Farm projects in American Samoa and the Philippines and will be posting the Project proposal in a few weeks there will be a few more cited sources of information on the subject.

Well my break is over I must return to work now…
laters....

Mike King

 

[MaryHM]

Thanks for the explanation, Mike. I always wondered why the "big guys" weren't dealing in Banggais. Seemed like a no brainer to me.

 

[FMarini]

Hi Mary, Hi Mike:
Great explanation on why Banggai's aren't a top priority in the commerical world. I can tell you from experience that this is an easy fish, which costs a ton to take to sellable stages. As a bit of history, I have been credited w/ being the first person ever to breed this fish (breed in captivity most likely) (this work was published in JoM96). Over the next 2 yrs, i mass raised banggais 300+yr. My costs were approx $28/fish. All my LFS were paying less than $12USD for wildcaught banggais, and refused to pay more for a fish w/ no shipping costs or mortality. On top of it the LFS tried to sell a few and people were wondering why should they pay $50 bux for a $20 fish -they couldn't move thee fish.
When i bought my first banggais in 95 i paid $100 each.

Hobbyist will not pay what fish are worth and there is No convincing commerical breeding firms to work w/ a low fecundity fish. As i wrote in the feb issue of the breeders net here. Commercial firms do a juggling act when they assess which fish to work w/. They must juggle fish which have high mass apeal, high fecundity, fry which eat prepared food and have known timeable breeding patterns, and weigh this w/ costs, and what they can charge for a fish. Doesn't work out for very many marine ornamentals. Well until congress places CITES restriction on these fish.
Can't wait for the day
frank

 

[ERIfish]

Folks,

There IS a source of excellent tank raised fish already on the market. All anyone has to do is buy them!! They aren't even that more expensive than wild-caught specimens and most of them cost the same as wild-caught animals. I know that I am not supposed to use this forum to plug products or companies, but when I read of the interest in obtaining tank-raised fish and the obvious lack of knowledge as to their availability, I just have to jump in. Anyway, if anyone is interested in these Tahitian tank-raised animals, please email me and I will tell you how to get them. OR, just look in the new product ad section of the October issue of TFH magazine. Someone is already producing these beauties - all you want and more to come with a new farm opening up in the central Indian Ocean (yes, tank-raised powder blue tangs and even Gemmatum tangs!!!!!).

Sincerely,

Rob Miller

 

[flameangel1]

eRIfish,,
Question here-- why is it that your website says you have collecters all over the world, but has NO mention of bred and raised fish ??
Pictures of your collecting stations-but not the "farming" ones??
If indeed you do farm all your fish- I would love to see pictures of your facilities of them.

 

[ERIfish]

Judy,

We are in the middle of constructing a new 30,000 gallon facility which is taking up most of our time and resources right now. Unfortunately our web site is really out of date and I do not have the time right now to rectify the problem. As soon as things settle down we WILL be completely overhauling and updating the website with tons of info and pictures from the farms. In the meantime go to www.aqua-fish.com and enjoy.

Regards,

Rob.

 

[ERIfish]

Sorry, please make a correction to the last post. That should read a new 30,000 square foot facility with over 100,000 gallons of water!!!

 

[flameangel1]

In the meantime go to www.aqua-fish.com and enjoy.
that link only brings up a cover page and has no "enter" or information at all !!

 

[ERIfish]

click on the British flag.

 

[MaryHM]

Judy,

You have to click the british flag for the english version.

 

[flameangel1]

this is all that comes up for me--
Bienvenue sur notre site

and a picture of a round circle with bubbles up the side.
Wont let me copy/paste the pic here.
There is no british flag !!!