Question for John about netting material

[mkirda]

John,

In the MAC presentation at IMAC, there was a single photo you displayed:
At one of the exporters, a fishermen was there with a bundle of net.
I recall that you said it was barrier netting...

What was that net made out of?

Just curious.
Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[John_Brandt]

I don't know Mike. It was a soft, woven material.

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
WE are not supposed to say anything and let all those kinds of things go... remember?
Yes, opaque white, nylon netting is a snow job and she got a bundle to show all the visiting non field folks her netting. Its worthless in fish collecting as a barrier net.
Its a snow job and a classic Filipino MORO MORO.
The real issue is that she did it on purpose. That implies many things but I guarantee you one thing. Niether she nor any real collectors take white net seriously for a moment. All barrier nets for collecting fish are clear [duh] monofilament.
You brought it up. A was holding back. I thought the toleration of insincerity and fraud was what we had to bear to make peace.
Holding back as usual, Steve

 

[John_Brandt]

Steve,

That particular material may be for purposes other than barrier nets. I don't recall asking what its specific use was for. I also saw the clear material you speak of.

 

[PeterIMA]

Is the woman in the picture with the material Lolita Ty?

Peter Rubec

 

[clarionreef]

JOHN,
Its only good for making little hand nets for aquarium use...BUT THERES WAY TOO MUCH OF IT!
SHOW IT TO FERDIE AND WATCH HIM BUST OUT LAUGHING. THEY HAVE DONE THIS FOR MANY YEARS EVER SINCE THE PIJAC WHITEWASH FACT FINDING TRIP. THIS CHARADE ALWAYS WORKS BECAUSE AUSTRALIAN OR HAWAIIAN PROFESSIONAL COLLECTORES ARE NEVER IN ATTENDANCE!
Its not at all your fault. Its the exporters simply defining them selves and revealing their level of sincerity w/ you.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

Is the woman in the picture with the material Lolita Ty?

Peter Rubec

Peter,

According to John, yes, that is Lolita Ty.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[John_Brandt]

JOHN,
Its only good for making little hand nets for aquarium use...BUT THERES WAY TOO MUCH OF IT!
SHOW IT TO FERDIE AND WATCH HIM BUST OUT LAUGHING. THEY HAVE DONE THIS FOR MANY YEARS EVER SINCE THE PIJAC WHITEWASH FACT FINDING TRIP. THIS CHARADE ALWAYS WORKS BECAUSE AUSTRALIAN OR HAWAIIAN PROFESSIONAL COLLECTORES ARE NEVER IN ATTENDANCE!
Its not at all your fault. Its the exporters simply defining them selves and revealing their level of sincerity w/ you.
Steve

So Steve, are you saying that this one will catch more fish?

 

[mkirda]

So Steve, are you saying that this one will catch more fish?

I think the big ears might scare the fish away...

Apparently the barrier netting is hard to come by, even in the Philippines.
Most countries have banned the fine mesh netting for the food fish industry as it catches everything. Hence the manufacturers have stopped making it.
The only approved use at this point is in the MO fishery, at least in the Philippines.

In Palauig, the fishermen hand-tie the barrier netting. A square meter can take upwards of a month to make. You can understand why they really take good care of their netting...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
Many exporters get fish from Palauwig, including the one with the big bundle of netting to show visitors. Why would anyone spend so much time sewing up their own if such bundles are about and if such NGOS as IMA and MAC have been there for years claiming expertise on such issues?
You mean to say that after all these years the poor divers are still on their own to come up with the netting?

there should not be situations like this to question and clarify!
Steve

 

[Len]

Steve,

In fairness to all parties in our community, I respectfully request you refrain from posts about speculative intentions (pertaining to your first post in this thread). It shouldn't require reminding that such disparaging accusations are not welcomed. Let's stick to the issues without singling out individuals and their assumed motives.

Much appreciated.

 

[dizzy]

So Len,
If your going to **** Steve like that, then at least tell us what the white netting is really used for.

 

[Len]

:?:

I was not disparaging Steve whatsoever. I made a simple administrative request not to single out individuals in our responses. In light of recent events, I thought that was what this forum wanted. It's what Reefs.org wants: to advance the issues without getting too personal.

Please note: I have very little understanding of industry issues and absolutely no understanding of the politics in this forum. I'm just here to administer Reefs.org affairs and help moderate this forum in an unbiased way.

 

[naesco]

Len the politics is easy
Industry is the bad guys and we are the good guys.

 

[Len]

::::: covers his eyes and pays no attention :::::
8)

 

[dizzy]

Len,
You make some of the best posts on RDO. I think you came down a little hard on Steve since he didn't mention anyone by name or say anything specific that I could find in the post. I have tremendous respect for you and I withdraw the disparaging remark.

"Reefs.org where seldom is heard a disparaging word, and our tanks are not cloudy all day."

 

[Len]

Thanks dizzy.

For clarification, personal names needn't be explicitly spelled out for it to be personal. The personal pronoun "she" to identify one specific individual pictured (and which the majority of this community knows the identity of) for public malignment is personal by definition.

 

[clarionreef]

OK Len,
I accept and I will try and be even more nebulous from now on when referring to unscrupulous activity.
However, I would love a suggestion on how to rephrase my post.
Got any?
Sincerely, Steve

 

[Len]

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

A good start would be to replace subjective pronouns with indefinite pronouns and speak simply in context of a larger industry group instead of a single individual. I know it's a very fine line, but due to numerous complaints about posts getting too personal and malacious, Reefs.org requests that everyone depersonalize their messages. There are many (informed via email or PM) that do not participate in this forum because of some of the past behavior here; I'd like to shed ourselves of that perception.

Another very critical addition to any accusation posted in public domain is the inclusion of substatiated evidence. I can't have people calling others frauds (ad naseum) without clearly defined support of these deragatory claims. Truth is, name calling is not tolerated; the issues can be effectively discussed without addressing individuals or groups with insulting adjectives. All I ask of people is to be respectful of others. Feel free to disagree with one another in a civil manner. A good rule of thumb for netiquette is: Always think how'd you feel if you were on the receiving end of the accusations and word your opinion in such a way that you yourself would not find offensive or unfair. It might take practice, but it's a skill worth mastering.

 

[clarionreef]

OK Now,
About the white netting offered to unsuspecting visitors to "show sincerity" in promoting net collecting.
If the netting itself was bogus, what may we deduce from it on the part of the "institutional figures" showing it?


I was born at nite...but not last nite,
Steve