[b]REEForm Notice To Industry[/b]

[naesco]

REEForm is a movement to stop the import of fish and coral imported from the Philippines and Indonesia where the use of cyanide is rampant. REEForm is a growing group of professionals, members of the greater industry and hobbyists dedicated to stopping the use of cyanide in our hobby.

REEForm is contacting a major University for the purposes of setting up a laboratory to perform independent Cyanide Detection Testing. (CDT)

Fish, specifically tangs, butterflys, triggers and angels, will be purchased from wholesalers, online stores and LFS and tested for cyanide. When a fish tests positive the vendor will be contacted and advised of same. REEForm will discuss with the vendor the results, the efforts the vendor has made to source cyanide-free fish to date, and their plan in the future. If in further testing, fish from that same vendor test positive, the vendor will be advised of the test results. In the event that it is determined that the vendor has refused or neglected to secure cyanide free fish, the result of both tests will be published here and on other Boards and industry publications.

REEForm advises industry to:

1. Contact your P/I suppliers and advise them that you require them, to immediately arrange for the training of local fishers in net caught procedures at their expense, to institute independant CDT at their facilities and to provide you with the timeline for implementation of this.

2. To find sources now for fish other than from the Philippines and Indonesia.

3. Keep records and demonstrate due diligence in purchasing fish if you choose to continue P/I purchases.

4. Do not switch inventory with other suppliers.

5. Set out a plan that integrates cyanide free fish into your business.

This notice is the first of many that will inform industry of the action REEForm is taking so that can take appropriate steps.
REEForm is committed to a cyanide free industry but desires that industry take the initiative to reform itself, so, govern yourselves accordingly.

REEForm

 

[JT]

First off, who are you? I am looking for more than a name here. What is your interest in "reforming the industry". Judging by previous posts/threads by you, it is clear you know very little about the industry. What makes you experienced enough to be leading a reform party?

Right now, "naesco" is just a faceless name posting on an electronic bulletin board. You never use your real name, all we know is that you are from Canada.

I am sure others feel the same way.

 

[dizzy]

JT,
I actually have seen at least one of naesco's posts that he did sign his name as Wayne Ryan. Peter Rubec has also told us that Wayne is an attorney. Scott Myerscough gave us some other clues in a recently locked thread.

 

[JT]

The way "naesco" acts and posts on boards reminds me of some PETA "operatives" that I used to know a few years ago (from a different "industry").

 

[dizzy]

Wayne,
I have a simple question. Please answer yes or no. Are you a member of the radical animals rights group PETA? (People for Ethical Treatment of Animals)

 

[naesco]

Wayne,
I have a simple question. Please answer yes or no. Are you a member of the radical animals rights group PETA? (People for Ethical Treatment of Animals)

No I am not and never have been a member of an any animal rights groups like PETA.
I have been a very sucessful attorney for 8 years in commercial law (yes I do land deals).

I have held the following positions.
1. President of the Progressive Comserative Party youth at UBC
2. President of the Young Progressive Conservatives of BC.
3. Numerous other elected positions in the Party at a Federal and Provincial Level
4.I have been a director of a financial institution and a hospital board.
5. On a number of occasions, I have started and led organizations to sucessfully protest where I saw unjustice.
6. With others in this forum I pushed for the adoption by the forum of a Unsuitable Species List (USL). I am a hobbyist.
I have travelled and have friends in almost ever state of the union, dove in most the the Caribbean Islands, the Phillippines and Taiwan.
In addtion to English, I am almost fluent in two other languages and know a smattering of another two.
So now that the personal stuff is out of the way, lets proceed with the discussion of this most important subject.
REEForm is looking for your input and ideas to stop the use of cyanide in our hobby.

 

[JT]

Thank you naesco. However, other than as a hobbyist, you have no other experience in the Marine Ornamental industry, correct??

 

[naesco]

Thank you naesco. However, other than as a hobbyist, you have no other experience in the Marine Ornamental industry, correct??

No, I have no hands on experience in the Marine Ornamental industry.
I am looking for input from industry as to how to effectively stop the use of cyanide.
I am looking for input from the industry in the Philippines and Indonesia as to how to achieve that goal.
I repeat, my earlier posts, all comments I receive from industry are confidential.

 

[MaryHM]

As a businessman I successfully turned around a company which I and some partners subsequently bought, from terrific annual losses to $2M annual profit. In four years sales increased from $6.8M to $23M while assets increased from $7.2M to $14M. In addition I started a US subsiduary that attained sales of $7.3M in 3 years.

With much, much less than that kind of money you can fund some serious net trainings. That would do more good than any "organization" you might create ever could.

 

[Anonymous]

naesco:

pardon the criticism, but... :wink:

would you berate,criticize, and harp upon a fire marshall's handling of an arson investigation having never lit a match yourself? :?

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
There had been a lack of handnetting in the Philippines for 10 years and now it has been sent over by the MSI fundraiser..
There still is a lack of the right kind of barrier netting in the Philippines. This stuff cost more. At least 13 K is needed to cover the first 1,000 divers.
AMDA has established this fund already and needs to fill it up.
Why not help us light some candles here and get pro-active real fast? If you're a successful businessperson you are already way ahead of our motley crew of broke-ass marinelife dealers, modest salary scientists and arm-chair quarterbacks.
We need a spark and you could be of service here.
Steve Robinson
AMDA president

 

[dizzy]

Wayne,
Thanks for coming clean on who you are. I now have a lot more respect for what you are trying to do. You are obviously a very dedicated and sucessful. Having said that I am still amazed that if you have been to the Philipppines, that you didn't come back with a little more sympathy for the plight of the fisherfolk. Even MAC realizes the tremendous role the reefs have in feeding the fishers. If you shut down the ornamental industry the reefs face greater pressure to collect many of those same fish to eat. It is very likely that shutting down the trade in ornamentals will actually cause much more harm to the reefs than good. I know you have read threads that have pointed this out plenty of times.

Wayne you need to slow down and think things through. Go read the thread about the tire reefs in Ft. Lauderdale. Come to the realization that the wrong action may be worse than no action at all. A lot of people who know a lot more about the industry than you are working on the problem. I do believe your heart is in the right place. If you listen to Steve and John and others you can become a part of the right solution. "Each man kills what he loves best" don't let it happen to our hobby.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

I find difficult to believe, now that there is a momentum, that the multimillion dollar marine aquarium industry in the US has not helped AMDA with the amount of money required for the first net training.

Jaime

 

[JennM]

I know no more about who "Wayne Ryan" is than I did before. Without company names to attach to those numbers, how can one verify this to make sure he's legit? And even if they are legitimate, what has that got to do with this industry? Absolutely nothing.

That notwithstanding, it in no way qualifies him to walk into my store and buy a fish to put in a blender, and determine my future. I'm not worried about any potential result - but I am worried that somebody with zero qualifications has taken it upon himself to save me from myself.... and my business and my industry.

Even if you pull this off, Wayne, what will you do when you do get a positive test? Who you gonna tell? Clearly there is little or no enforcement of the Lacey Act or any other legislation - in order to effect changes you need consequences. Who are you going to get to impose fines or jail or whatever? Posting here will only create legal problems for you and probably RDO (Novak v. APD ring a bell? Maybe he's bankrupt but he took a bunch of people to Hell with him.), and the majority of hobbyists do not bother with clubs or societies or even the Internet. So you will only broadcast to those who were interested in the first place. Preaching to the choir, as it were.

What's in it for you Wayne? Is there a prize waiting at the end?

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I think Naesco is well intentioned but I think he's polarizing rather than building a coalition or expanding upon the existing collective efforts taking place. If you have access to that much capital Naesco could you not find people willing to donate money for netting, training and research into a better CDT more easily administered?

Legislation and a big to do would hurt both the collectors and the existing markets (at least in the US). Those people will need to make a living still and the alternatives to ornamental collection would not necessarily preclude cyanide being used. I say let the existing efforts go forth and if you can find some capital then put it to use at the source - not at the end market here in America.



Also for anyone interested in the Tire/Reef article Dizzy mentioned I found a decent summary here:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ ... ul13.story

The best laid plans go awry.

 

[naesco]

What's in it for you Wayne? Is there a prize waiting at the end?

Jenn[/quote]

Knowing that in a small way, that I have been part of a group of citizens of the world that ended the destruction of the reefs and its inhabitantants by your industry, Jenn.

And Jenn, every day in every way there is a prize: knowing it is going to happen.

 

[mkirda]

Knowing that in a small way, that I have been part of a group of citizens of the world that ended the destruction of the reefs {snip}

And Jenn, every day in every way there is a prize: knowing it is going to happen.

You figured out a way to end the US consumer prediliction towards SUVs instead of Civic Hybrids?
Or know how to head off Global Warming?
Figured out Fusion power?

The approach is way, way, way too Western, Naesco.
Nothing you have outlined is going to end the destruction of the reefs.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[JennM]

What's in it for you Wayne? Is there a prize waiting at the end?

Jenn

Knowing that in a small way, that I have been part of a group of citizens of the world that ended the destruction of the reefs and its inhabitantants by your industry, Jenn.

And Jenn, every day in every way there is a prize: knowing it is going to happen.[/quote]

Oh brother :roll:

How about cleaning up your OWN back yard before you try to clean mine??? What about the stores in BC, Wayne, what about the ones in your own neighbourhood? What about the ones YOU support? Are they ALL clean? What about all the wholesalers? Clean up BC and maybe I'll take you seriously - you and your "anonymous" party of "reformers" (I can still hear Preston Manning's voice .... )

I do my part EVERY day. No prizes, no notoriety, no big bucks or foundations or coalitions. No frills.

Jenn

 

[kylen]

Jenn,

Even worse than that, I can even picture Preston in my head.

 

[jamesw]

Jenn,

If you have a suggested plan for how we as hobbyists can help our local stores "clean up their act" I'm very interested. I can't seem to get mine to listen.

Every week they just order what the customers want - from the cheapest source they can get reliable supply...

Cheers
James