TRANSPORT AND HANDLING: iINDUSTRY MUST CHANGE

[naesco]

BILL 4928, soon to be Law states under Para. 2.9

(9) As many as 1/3 to 1/2 of the aquarium fish imported from Southeast Asia die shortly after arriving in the United States due to stress associated with handling and transport and the use of cyanide during capture, and such high mortality rates lead to continued pressure for extraction from the wild to maintain public and private collections

In a recent thread,many commented on the losses due to poor shipping practices.

There are better methods of handling fish but Industry refuses to adopt them.
For example breatheable plastic bags provide better transport conditions.
Minimum bag sizing and maximum fish per bag provide further opportunities for lowering the stress and DOA rates. But industry refuses to consider these options as well.

This thread is an opportunity of vendors of those bags to provide detailed information. If you know someone, ask them to wade in.

 

[Anonymous]

BILL 4928, soon to be Law states under Para. 2.9

Stop lying, please. It's getting annoying...

Peace,

Chip

 

[MaryHM]

Ding Ding Ding. Round 2985794539 of "Wayne knows nothing, but tells everyone what to do"

For example breatheable plastic bags provide better transport conditions.

Ever shipped a fish in those, Wayne?? I mean anything bigger and with more spines than say a watchman goby?? These bags SUCK for shipping anything that has the potential to puncture the bag. And that's about 80% of fish.

Minimum bag sizing and maximum fish per bag provide further opportunities for lowering the stress and DOA rates. But industry refuses to consider these options as well.

Maximum fish per bag?? You mean you think it's a good idea to ship more than one fish per bag?? I don't. I'd drop a supplier in a heartbeat if they shipped "maximum" fish per bag.

Wayne, these bags have been around for a while. If they actually were a feasible alternative, they would be being used right now. But they aren't. I think even Peter will agree with me on this. Not only is the puncturing a major factor, but even putting the bags in the box is a major complication. The sides of the bags can't be touching anything so the oxygen can flow through. Problem is, how do you pack more than one bag per box if the bags can't touch??

WOULD YOU PLEASE, JUST FOR ONCE, UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SPOUT PRIOR TO SPOUTING IT???

 

[naesco]

Mary your comments on the effectiveness of the breatheable bags are welcome.
Your other comments are not. Not by me nor by anyone on this board.

Bill 4928 is far too serious a matter for you, your fellow industry persons, and my hobby.

 

[keethrax]

For example breatheable plastic bags provide better transport conditions.

If this were true, why wouldn't they be using them? A surviign fish is worth much more to everybody involved, and if it a simple switch of bags would help, it would be done. I'm pretty certain those bags aren't *that* expensive relative to the other costs (freight especially) involved. If I can ship fewer animals (due to a higher survival rate) by switching bags, who wouldn't do that. This leads one to surmise that the bags aren't terribly useful after all.

Ditto with the bag size/fish count. You don't think that they've got a pretty good idea of how big a bag/how much water/how much oxygen ensure a good chance of survival? Once again, freight is expensive, having to ship extra fish to cover losses is expensive, at this point.

You seem to thikn the "industry" is some group who kills off fish and giggles all the way to the bank. When it's often the newer guys entering the field to offer so called healthier net-caught specimines who are suffering the higher loss rate.s Good intentions only get you so far.

It's a business, and it's one who'se best interest lies in as few DOA as possible. Not for any touchy-feely stuff, but because it affects the bottom line.considering thee distances involved, I'm suprised they mostly manage as well as they do in all honesty.

It doesnt' take regulation to come up with better shipping methods, simple economics will take care of that jsut fine. Why regulate that which is inherently self-regulating? The efewer fish an importer has to order to get X (some number) of fish to sell to the next stiep in the process, the more money they make. And so on all the way to the fish store.

 

[MaryHM]

Well Wayne, when you make a blanket statement like:

There are better methods of handling fish but Industry refuses to adopt them.
For example breatheable plastic bags provide better transport conditions.

I assume you aren't asking for opinions on effectiveness. You don't care, because you've already made up your mind that breathable bags are the savior of fish transport. You do this constantly. State something as a fact that you know absolutely nothing about. I DON'T APPRECIATE THAT. And sorry, but I'm going to challenge you every time you do it. Because honestly, at this point I get a kick out of playing "What dumb thing is Wayne going to say today?". It's a good past time- takes my mind off other stresses in my life. So thank you, Wayne. Thank you for being you.

 

[keethrax]

Mary your comments on the effectiveness of the breatheable bags are welcome.
Your other comments are not. Not by me nor by anyone on this board.

Bill 4928 is far too serious a matter for you, your fellow industry persons, and my hobby.

Actually many of us (at least me, and I suspect many others) find Mary at a minimum much more coherent and rational than you. Even when we don't agree with her, at least she has the ability to clearly state and back up her position.

 

[Anonymous]

/me clicks 'watch this topic for more of naesco's replies' :lol:

 

[horge]

La la la la la la la la la la la la la la
Tra-la la la la la la la la la la la la la la
Tra-la la la la la la la la la la la la la la
La-la, la-la
La-la, la-la
Tra-la la la la la la la la la la la la la la
Tra-la la la la la la la la la la la la la la
La-la, la-la
La-la, la-la
La la la la la la la la la la la la la la

Rubber.
Road.

 

[MaryHM]

Hmmmm. Is that song by Xtina or Snoop??

 

[horge]

Mizzle-fizzle wizzle's full of shizzle.

I miss the 'old days': discussing --however heatedly-- possible solutions, or even simply the nature of the problem. Now it seems we're mostly consumed in countering the misleading pretensions of poseurs who don't know the first thing aout the problem, and know even less of any solutions.

Let's not even mention having done any real work on the issue...

 

[MaryHM]

Very true. But honestly, I don't know how close we were to any solutions back in the "old days". Is it even a solvable problem?? I don't know anymore. In my mind, the problem is cyanide killing the reef. That's really the only problem I see. I don't see the huge mortalities Wayne and Peter scream about. Honestly, a fish that leaves the reef is basically "dead fish swimming" whether it lives for 2 minutes, 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years, or 2 decades. It will never go back to the reef and fufill it's ecological niche. It's dead to nature. It's the damage to the reef that is the true problem. I used to be able to think positive. To believe that it was a solvable problem. But the more I learned, the less naive I became. Wayne is just the opposite- the more he learns, the more naive he becomes (which I find utterly amazing). Where do you stand, Horge? Is cyanide even a solvable problem?

I do agree that the level of uneducated posturing in here has reached an all time high and is detrimental to any positive insight.

 

[Anonymous]

i remember about two yrs ago someone mentioned something to naesco about caps in thread titles


some folks like to yell alot i guess

 

[MaryHM]

I KNOW I DO

 

[naesco]

i remember about two yrs ago someone mentioned something to naesco about caps in thread title

Sorry Mod please correct them.

 

[naesco]

For those who are serious about reeform, government people, hobbyists and some industry types, the replies to this thread are typical of industry.

Sadly, that attitude necessitates governement intervention with the consequences on industry and on our hobby.

 

[naesco]

Apart from the plastic bag issue which only Mary has addressed there are other issues raised in the original thread that merit discussion.


That is to say, the size of the bag, the amount of water in it and the number of fish.
The Philippine and Indonesian exporters are the most guilty of poor transport conditions.

 

[Anonymous]

Apart from the plastic bag issue which only Mary has addressed there are other issues raised in the original thread that merit discussion.


That is to say, the size of the bag, the amount of water in it and the number of fish.
The Philippine and Indonesian exporters are the most guilty of poor transport conditions.

atm, they pack better than your suggestions for packing

 

[MaryHM]

Wayne, how many shipments of fish coming from the Philippines or Indonesia have you personally witnessed?

 

[MaryHM]

My hubby Morgan's response to this thread after having it read to him.

Breathable bags??? That is soooooo 1998.