Who needs a pile of expensive books that could be better spent on corals
. There is just as much info on the net as in any book and it is free. That is the whole point of this board. If you ask people will answer. You just need to give as well as take.
There is a lot of info out there; the hard part is finding it. I have a five hundred page binder that I filled with stuff Ive printed off the net. It is composed of everything from articles to posts from this and other boards. It is as comprehensive as any book out there. I feel very confident in setting up my first reef with the info in it. Havent spent a dime on a book.
I'm with you MFisher!
If you wouldn't have replied to Gannet I would've. Dealing with people's attitudes is the biggest turnoff to a newsgroup. That's the reason I came to this Newsgroup; I was trying to get away from the ego's.
That's a great idea with printing out the info and creating your own reference book! I should have started that a long time ago!
<<Who needs a pile of expensive books that could be better spent on corals >>
Of course, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. There is an awful lot of misinformation floating around the internet, whereas books are often edited heavily before publication. They are also more often written by people who are properly informed about the subject.
I enjoy the no holds barred aspect of this and other message board over any "I say it is so therefor it must be" book out there. I'm not saying that books arent a helpful, easily accessable form of media. They are. I am just saying that one should not underestimate the value of the internet's expansive resources. You cannot ask a book questions. A book cannot give a multi-faceted approach to care of a reef tank. Tanks are as different as you and I's fingerprints. They may look alike but none are exactly the same. You need to have a number of opinions to reach the appropriate answer (for your own situation) in reef keeping.
By the way. I do not feel that the first hand experience of a "professional" is any better that that of any of the amatuers that haunt this and other boards. If they give you their experiences with the proper information about their set up their info is as good as anyone else's. I'd say anyone who successfully propagates a reef is "properly informed".
Id put any number of the amature's reefs up against those of the "properly informed" any day. They may not have all of the expensive gizmos but in terms of beauty and "success" they would be in the same ballpark. I think that this very sort of egocentric attitude of many of the big-shots in reef keeping is a real hinderance to amature reef keepers. I have seen a lot of really simple, low-buck, reefs manitained by everyday joes that look spectacular.
[This message has been edited by MFisher (edited 29 December 1999).]
>Who needs a pile of expensive books that could be better spent on corals
Welp, mebbe if you had bought some books you wouldn't need to buy corals so often.
I note that for all the whining about how wonderful the Internet is, there were no substantive answers to the original poster's question: "Does anyone know of a website that provides light & care specifications for different corals in degrees of difficulty."
There are no such websites that are even close to being comprehensive or accurate. On the other hand, there are several books that are very good at this, and some of them aren't even very expensive.
All this blather about tank care, filtration, yadda, yadda, doesn't have a thing to do with the original question, now does it? The Internet is a wonderful resource, but to think that it can totally replace good reference works is silly, imo. Heck, if people would buy and read those books we could cut the volume on these boards at least by half.
<<Id put any number of the amature's reefs up against those of the "properly informed" any day. They may not have all of the expensive gizmos but in terms of beauty and "success" they would be in the same ballpark. >>
I don't know what this has to do with the usefulness of books. I never made any claims about the need for expensive equipment. I would challenge the statement about the quality of beginners reefs vs experienced people, but that's off topic too.
My point was that this board, and most but not all others, are loaded with misinformation. Some of it never gets challenged. That applies to posted articles as well as messages. The problem is that a beginner doesn't know who to believe.
Should he believe superfishman44, who states everything as a proven fact, even though he's only kept a tank for 2 weeks and gets all his info from his brother in law who works for Pets-R-Us? Or should he take the advice of known experts, whether professional or amature?
Don't get me wrong, I am a big, big fan of the internet for reef tanks. I've spent more than a hour a day on the net for several years, and have learned a huge amount from it. Far more than from books, even though I have a fair number of reef books. But I've also learned that a good portion of what is posted is simply incorrect. In some specific areas of reef tank science, perhaps half of what is posted is simply, provably incorrect.
[This message has been edited by Randy Holmes-Farley (edited 30 December 1999).]
After spending a lot of time on this and other boards I have found who to trust and who not to trust. There is a lot of good information out there and a lot of bad. But honestly it isn't that hard to spot the B.S. I'm not gonna look at somebody's first post and set up my tank like they suggest and by their suggestion only.
Granted that doesn't mean that everyone out there is a certified pro because they post alot. Look at me for example. I have never set up a reef but I have a very good knowledge of the fundamentals of reef keeping. I just don't have the firsthand knowledge (coming soon
). But I never claim to be a pro and if I post advice I usually state this.
I don't know what you are talking about Gannett. I haven't bought any corals. And yes there is a good site (which I can't remember the addy of) that show everything from coral aggression, to light requirements to necessary water movement. It may be somewhere on theis page http://www.netpets.org/fish/fishref.html
But it might not. I just cant get the page to work right now. It might be under one of A. Theils online books. Yeah, Yeah, Its a book but its a website too. BTW "yeah they're called books, go get some" wasn't answering the original post very well Either.
RHF, what I meant about the quality of tanks is that there are a lot of successful reefkeepers on this board. The biggest problem with beginners is that they are in a hurry and dont take the time to read enough before they begin. My buddy just jumped right into a reef tank and didn't read anything but some old (2-3 yrs) books and is failing wonderfully. It try to help but it is hard to erase what he has ingrained in his mind. I on the other hand have been reading hours a day for months. If every beginner did this every beginner was successful.
I'll keep looking for that page. I should have it up in a day or two (I hope)
I gotta get into this one... theres alot of mis information in books most books over 2 years old will tell you "eventually you will likely want to invest in a chiller", while everyone I know is now taking theres out and having great success. DLS and bio balls..De nitraters, Reef keeping has come a long way just in the last couple of years. Largely due to the internet. And I love a good argument..especially if I learn something from it. We can get on this board and argue about the old and the new stuff..and eventually it all works out. The point is there are people having success with both methods. If we knew it all none of us would be here in the first place. I have read a ton of books and have learned some of the things that have given me the most success on the internet alot of it right here. There is a lot of information on this board..from polyps to playsand..And argonite to zenia..it is all here some good and some bad..sort through the successes and the failures and look for the consistancies and you have pretty good references right here. I have seen very few stupid answers to any questions, (some of those stupid answers may have been mine) and there just isn't really a stupid question. Books won't hurt but if you don't get new ones your wasting your time and money!
I stumbled into this thread ..Now Im gonna stumble out...See ya
Alan schwaber, arnjer, Mfisher, Brvheart & Clark; thank you!
The information provided will be put to good use. I take everything on the net into consideration as well as all other recommendations. My decisions, as to what I do with my reef tank, and what I purchase is based on the most reliable knowledge - my experiences. I go with what works for me and nothing else. There are many different views and opinions out there, and no information is bad information. That's because everything is based on other reefkeeper's experiences and knowledge. I do read, and do purchase books on the related issues. Just trying to broaden my mind. Thanks - you guys are the best!
I stand by my answer. There are no such websites that are comprehensive and accurate. This information is most easily available in the standard works in the field: TRA 1/2, MCRA 1/2, PGCRA, and Sprung's new book.
The fact that you even have to ask this question suggests that you don't have these books. I don't know if you do or not; if you do, ignore the next paragraph.
I'm tired of the amount of cluelessness and inaccuracy found on these boards. I'm tired of people trying to cheap out on this hobby. If you can't afford to buy at least 1 or 2 of the standard works, you can't afford this hobby. If you can afford it, but prefer to pester people with requests for information that you could have available, then you're a moocher.
People who can give accurate information on the web boards got -their- information at great cost and hassle. It's not unreasonable for them to expect that those asking the questions will expend at least a modicum of money and effort themselves.
fwiw, imo, ime, ymmv, etc.
[This message has been edited by Gannet (edited 30 December 1999).]
gannet.....i'm not a moocher
info changes on these subjects all the time
this should be a fun and educational board
there is no reason to start name calling
i'm sure you are intelligent enough to respond without resorting to that
Lastly, to reiterate what some others have said, the 'net is full of gems and also full of crap. Be careful that you know which is which. Also, when buying books, simply ask about the publishing date, or when they were last revised. Most of the info in books is solid stuff, it's just that it happens to be slightly dated by the time it reaches the shelves....
-Kevin T, Your Friendly Neighborhood Op
( Chucker's views are not necessarily those of reefs.org... or maybe they are )
Who is calling names? Not me. If you mean "Better to be a wise-ass than a dumb-ass", that's simply a staement of opinion. It's not directed at anyone in particular.
As to the original question: "light & care specifications for different corals in degrees of difficulty", no, information on this does NOT change all the time. Most of these species are millions of years old. They don't change their minds about what they need every time a new reef fad comes around. Wilken's books have been around for a -long- time and they're still pretty much just as valid as they ever were.
It is true that we are developing new information about how to keep previously "impossible" species, and that information is presented on the Internet first....but then, a newbie should assume that, Internet info or no, those species are beyond him.