I recently purchased a Kole Tang and up until yesterday, it seemed fine. Now it is doing all kinds of wild high speed moves around the tank and has cut itself on the live rock. It is moving very fast and darting back and forth in the tank. I have a 120 gal tank and this tang is one of 7 fish in the tank. I don't think it is an issue with space in the tank. This seems like very strange behavior to me...or is this normal for a Kole tang. Either way it is not very relaxing to watch this fish do backflips in the tank. Any thoughts on what is causing this strange behavior or what I should do?
Kole Gone Wild
- Thread starter rbeberwein
- Start date
Hi, and welcome to reefs.org. This behavior could be caused by several things: parasitic infection (especially if it's actively scraping its body), stress/perceived predator, possibly even stray current (good time to consider a grounding probe.. unless you already have one which would blow that theory out of the water).
Hopefully this will your post a good bump, and someone else may have some other ideas for you.
Hopefully this will your post a good bump, and someone else may have some other ideas for you.
I agree with Seamaiden. If there is not parasite I would recommend you turn the lights off for a day which gives the tang a chance to settle down.
If you are putting your hands in or on the tank when you have a new fish, the reefer is stressing the fish.
If you are putting your hands in or on the tank when you have a new fish, the reefer is stressing the fish.
and...
was there any appreciable difference between the sg of the system it came from, and your system, and did you acclimate the tang?
fwiw, and this may not be the case, but....
low pH can trigger a behavior known as 'acidosis'-typically exemplified by rapid darting about, breathing, and dashing into objects, as if the fish is almost temporarily blinded
a sudden change of pH can also trigger very odd nervous behavior-even in the reverse direction of the pH shift
was there any appreciable difference between the sg of the system it came from, and your system, and did you acclimate the tang?
fwiw, and this may not be the case, but....
low pH can trigger a behavior known as 'acidosis'-typically exemplified by rapid darting about, breathing, and dashing into objects, as if the fish is almost temporarily blinded
a sudden change of pH can also trigger very odd nervous behavior-even in the reverse direction of the pH shift
naesco":1z5qt87n said:
oh yeah, there's the ticket :roll:
chances are the fish has gone through things far more stressfull than a silly hand in the tank, and that's the best you can do, mr. tang policeman?
i put my hands in tanks with newly arrived fish by the hundreds weekly, and most fish, including tangs, don't freak out all that much
i'd say i catch, w/ my hands, via 'chasing, or nudging' a few hundred fish for customers every single week, some of which have only been in our establishment for a few days, and most fish swim rather calmly into the 'spec' cup-most don't even need to be chased, but can be calmly tricked into swimming gently into the cup on their own
i put all of our fish that arrive(excepting venonmous species)into our tanks by hand- gently scooping them out of the bag, lifting them into the air, and resting my hand into the tank- many fish, including many different varieties of tang- will actually rest on the palm of my hand for a short while, before (fairly calmly) swimming into the tank
how many fish have you seen 'stressed' by people's hands , naesco-that lead you to make such an obviously patent blanket and false statement?
1000?
100?
10?
1?
i also feed many fish by hand here-most will swim right into my palm and nibble my fingers w/in a matter of days-yup, really stressful :roll:
Thank you for your responses. To answer some of the questions I have read in the responses:
My perimeters are a: pH is 8.2 ppm; ammonia is 0; nitrites: 0 and nitrates are 80 ppm.
The tank is about a month old but purchased used and set up for two years.
I purchased several fish in two groups. The first group, which included the Kole also included a Naso, Firefish, Royal Gramma and a Flame Angel. I purchased them through the LFS that I frequent. All the fish in this group had been at the LFS for at least two weeks, perhaps longer. I did not QT them. The second group, which I added to the tank a week later after QTing them are two small Hippo Tangs.
I am working on reducing the nitrate level through weekly water changes and reducing their feedings to once a day. I had been feeding twice a day and had two pieces of seaweed algae soaked in garlic sitting in thet tank attached to live rock for grazing. I am also purchasing a new protein skimmer as that is also used.
I currently have a Purple tang in QT tank waiting to acclimate.
Hope this information helps.
Hope this helps.
My perimeters are a: pH is 8.2 ppm; ammonia is 0; nitrites: 0 and nitrates are 80 ppm.
The tank is about a month old but purchased used and set up for two years.
I purchased several fish in two groups. The first group, which included the Kole also included a Naso, Firefish, Royal Gramma and a Flame Angel. I purchased them through the LFS that I frequent. All the fish in this group had been at the LFS for at least two weeks, perhaps longer. I did not QT them. The second group, which I added to the tank a week later after QTing them are two small Hippo Tangs.
I am working on reducing the nitrate level through weekly water changes and reducing their feedings to once a day. I had been feeding twice a day and had two pieces of seaweed algae soaked in garlic sitting in thet tank attached to live rock for grazing. I am also purchasing a new protein skimmer as that is also used.
I currently have a Purple tang in QT tank waiting to acclimate.
Hope this information helps.
Hope this helps.
Absolutely this information helps. First, once you get into the habit you will be really glad you're using quarantine. At the very least start making use of freshwater dips. It's important to remember to have the water matched for temperature and pH.
Second, I believe that having the Kole with the Naso is rather crowded, more so for the Naso, which really loves to swim. Have you noticed any interspecific aggression between the two? I have found Nasoes to be a bit.. mm.. pissy at times. This could easily be the cause of the Kole's behavior. It doesn't need to be overt aggression, watch to see if the Naso "presents" itself to the Kole: it will demonstrate its size by presenting its side (the biggest view) and flaring its fins. This is sort of like a fishy "Put 'em up!" challenge. The Kole could be scared out of its wits and trying to find a way out of the Naso's way.
Please, do not reduce feedings--tangs are much like horses and in their natural habitat graze constantly. This isn't just an issue of nutrition but also of psychology for these fishes. If you haven't already, plan on purchasing a good quality foam fractionator to help keep nitrate readings in check (however, I don't think they'd cause this behavior, I think the end result of persistently high nitrate readings would be problematic health issues). The best way to really knock out the nitrate readings is to do two, three, or more SIGNIFICANT water changes--on the order of 50%, consecutively (every other day to daily even).
Finally, again, if you haven't already, consider setting up a refugium as well. Natural nitrate reduction is a really cool thing.
Second, I believe that having the Kole with the Naso is rather crowded, more so for the Naso, which really loves to swim. Have you noticed any interspecific aggression between the two? I have found Nasoes to be a bit.. mm.. pissy at times. This could easily be the cause of the Kole's behavior. It doesn't need to be overt aggression, watch to see if the Naso "presents" itself to the Kole: it will demonstrate its size by presenting its side (the biggest view) and flaring its fins. This is sort of like a fishy "Put 'em up!" challenge. The Kole could be scared out of its wits and trying to find a way out of the Naso's way.
Please, do not reduce feedings--tangs are much like horses and in their natural habitat graze constantly. This isn't just an issue of nutrition but also of psychology for these fishes. If you haven't already, plan on purchasing a good quality foam fractionator to help keep nitrate readings in check (however, I don't think they'd cause this behavior, I think the end result of persistently high nitrate readings would be problematic health issues). The best way to really knock out the nitrate readings is to do two, three, or more SIGNIFICANT water changes--on the order of 50%, consecutively (every other day to daily even).
Finally, again, if you haven't already, consider setting up a refugium as well. Natural nitrate reduction is a really cool thing.
seamaiden":3oywixay said:
Sea's going to get grumpy with me, but I am wholeheartedly, 110% AGAINST freshwater dipping a fish, except maybe in cases of extreme parasitic infection (and by then it's too late anyway). Even temp and pH matched fresh water...it's just too stressful for a fish, IMO. Why add another stressor to a fish that's already been through the ringer of collection, storage, transport, storage, transport, acclimation, etc. ::shakes head:: I just can't see it.
Anyway, just my opinion on the matter. I have a feeling your high nitrates are stressing the fish out some, and I'll throw in my recommendation for a grounding probe. The way you described the fish it just sounds like a stray voltage to me.
Why? Because it works, Sharkky. 
FWIW, I've yet to have a fish kick during a f/w dip, and have saved plenty with them. The instances I know of with fish that didn't survive a f/w dip proved to be cases where the animal wasn't going to survive anyway.
Try looking up Black Spot Disease, a.k.a. "Black Ich" (once very common on yellow tangs), it is so easily eradicated with f/w dipping that Bob has had trouble finding relatively recent pics. Also, check Anthony Calfo's advice regarding Amyloodinium, a particularly nasty (and common) parasitic infection. He strongly recommends f/w dips.
I'd also like to toss out this for your consideration; if stray voltage were the main issue, would we not see other animals somewhat affected? (Especially when there's another tang present.)
<sm, not grumpy, just wanted to elaborate on the information>
FWIW, I've yet to have a fish kick during a f/w dip, and have saved plenty with them. The instances I know of with fish that didn't survive a f/w dip proved to be cases where the animal wasn't going to survive anyway.
Try looking up Black Spot Disease, a.k.a. "Black Ich" (once very common on yellow tangs), it is so easily eradicated with f/w dipping that Bob has had trouble finding relatively recent pics. Also, check Anthony Calfo's advice regarding Amyloodinium, a particularly nasty (and common) parasitic infection. He strongly recommends f/w dips.
I'd also like to toss out this for your consideration; if stray voltage were the main issue, would we not see other animals somewhat affected? (Especially when there's another tang present.)
<sm, not grumpy, just wanted to elaborate on the information>
Thank you all for your posts. Since my last post on 8/31, I am happy to report that all the fish are doing well. (knock on wood). I currently have eight fish in the 120g. and they are all actively swimming and eating. I am starting to see a pattern with the Kole's "dancing" and fast paced swimming. She (I am guessing on the sex) seems to do the dance in the evenings around 10-11 p.m. Perhaps it is just part of who she is and her routine.
BTW, I am not happy about having five tangs in my tank but unfortunately I got caught by the "LFS knows what he is talking about" bug and bought them. Fortuantely, the two hippos are about 2" long, the Naso is about 2 1/2 and the Kole and Purple are in the 2 1/2-3" range. Right now they are all living in harmony.
BTW, I am not happy about having five tangs in my tank but unfortunately I got caught by the "LFS knows what he is talking about" bug and bought them. Fortuantely, the two hippos are about 2" long, the Naso is about 2 1/2 and the Kole and Purple are in the 2 1/2-3" range. Right now they are all living in harmony.
seamaiden":2kr8up15 said:
well now, there ya go, again, supposing incorrectly
i even know how to prepare tissue samples for slides, and how to stain 8O
if you're trying to tell me that any post-mortem can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that an animal wouldn't have recovered from whatever was ailing it, then you're an idiot
animals, including fish can recover from even cancer on their own :wink:
or are you telling me that every single one of the fish you dipped, were proven by post mortem to be suffering from something that would have killed them, 100%, w/no possibility of self recovery?
oh, puhleeeeze...
the best ichthyologist/pathologist can't make such an outlandish statement :roll:
anything for you, harding :wink:
but how'zabout you address my challenge of your statement? it's an honest request for you to back up the contention you've made about being sure that every fish that died when you dipped it was known postively to not have been able to recover on it's own, AFTER IT DIED, IMMEDIATELY AFTER DIPPING WAS PERFORMED!!!!
it's a supposition you can't prove, is all i'm saying- and i think it's a somewhat foolish assertion, and certainly unscientific :wink:
now, don't you go obfuscating and circumlocuting the issue again, w/abuse of my good family name, m'kay? :lol:
(makes ya look abit silly) :wink:
but how'zabout you address my challenge of your statement? it's an honest request for you to back up the contention you've made about being sure that every fish that died when you dipped it was known postively to not have been able to recover on it's own, AFTER IT DIED, IMMEDIATELY AFTER DIPPING WAS PERFORMED!!!!
it's a supposition you can't prove, is all i'm saying- and i think it's a somewhat foolish assertion, and certainly unscientific :wink:
now, don't you go obfuscating and circumlocuting the issue again, w/abuse of my good family name, m'kay? :lol:
(makes ya look abit silly) :wink:
Vitz,
your comments are rude and uncalled for. This is a great place for reefers to chat and help one another. Not a place for name calling and childish behavior. Please be polite and help us keep this forum an awesome place that wont scare away newbies!!!!!!!
Our hobby has gotten a bad rep as being full of know it alls and just rude stuck up individuals. We need to change this and help newbies the best way we can and to be as polite as we can.
-puff
your comments are rude and uncalled for. This is a great place for reefers to chat and help one another. Not a place for name calling and childish behavior. Please be polite and help us keep this forum an awesome place that wont scare away newbies!!!!!!!
Our hobby has gotten a bad rep as being full of know it alls and just rude stuck up individuals. We need to change this and help newbies the best way we can and to be as polite as we can.
-puff
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