Damsels in Distress

[tripsied]

Yep, I am a bona-fide first-time "fishy" parent and new here at reefs.org (which is the best place I have found for information) :lol: :lol:

After 2 months of research I finally went ahead and got my first tank (a 20 gal Eclipise 3); 40#'s Aragonite sand; 20 #'s Aragonite LS (same type as the original, size in mm is unknown); 10#'s LR; a MaxiJet 1200; and 2 yellowfin damsels ("Bobfish" and "Dorrie", named by my 3 year-old).

Here's what's going on: (I realize it's lengthy and I apologize...it's "first-time-parenting jitters" resulting in a large quantaties of verbosity)

Lighting:
2 - 40 watt (???) daylight bulbs(bulit into the Eclipse hood)

Water Chemistry
(The LFS would NOT test the water because the tank is cycling and they told me to bring a sample in 3 weeks)
Ph: 8.0
SG .024-.025

The tank was started on Sunday (Sept. 28th), the water was cloudy (from the silt and normal). The fish were slightly stressed out, I noticed that their color was quite a bit lighter than what it was at the LFS (prolly due to stress but nothing to be overly concerned about).

Monday morning came and the silt had cleared, the fish seemed okay and I went to work. I came home in the evening to find that the fish were really bleached out (almost white). These are blue damsels and therefore should be electric blue. I took this color change to mean that the fish were under heavy stress (i.e. ammonia spike). The fish were sitting in their respective corners of the tank (Bobfish in front-left and Dorrie in the rear-right), not eating or doing anything (they had been fine the previous day). I decided to do an experiment and added the MaxiJet 1200 to the tank (this was around 8 AM).

The change in the fish was immediate. The color went from a very light (almost sickly looking) whitish lavender to electric blue. Bobfish began poking around for food (he's the "tough guy" of the tank) and Dorrie (the subordinate i.e. "picked on") began feeding as well. Everything seemed fine. I watched them for an hour and everything seemed okay so I went to work. I came in around 6 PM and Dorrie was in his corner, looking bleached out, Bobfish was in the cave to the rear of the tank (not where he started out) and would not come out, he too was bleachy looking, so I pulled the plug on the MaxiJet, thinking that the heavy current might be stressing them out. I left it off for the night.

Tuesday morning came and the fish were bleachy-looking, but not so bad. I did not turn the MaxiJet on at all, as I thought it was stressing out the fish. I went to work, however, when I came home, the fish seemed okay. I left the MaxiJet off over night.

This morning (Wed, Oct 1) the fish were in the worst condition I had ever them in. Dorrie was in the front-right corner of the tank, paddling but not moving around at all, and was a very sickly-looking whitish color, and breathing fast and shallow. Bobfish was in the cave in the rear, he too, was very pale (almost white), not moving much (which is unusal for him) and breathing rapidly and shallowly).

I put my hand in front of the tank to see if Dorrie would move, but he would not. Bobfish, likewise wouldn't even stir for the flashlight (he HATES the light from the flashlight).

I decided to put the MaxiJet on. Again, the change was immediate. Their color went from the sickly lavender color to electric blue in roughly 5 minutes. Bobfish began poking around for food and even went so far to swim all the way over to Dorrie, just to "pick" at him. Dorrie fought back (for the first time). I left the MaxiJet on.

I realize the above is rather long, but I felt the background was necessary. My question is this:

Is the bleaching a result of stress?
(I think so, but would like verification)
I realize the tank is cycling, but I would like to keep the fish as comfortable as possible during the cycle. I have never been through the cycle process before and I do not know what is "normal" (One can only learn so much from reading, experience is a great teacher).

Should I leave the MaxiJet running and will it affect the cycling of the tank?
(I am somewhat nervous about it, because Idon't want to stress the fish)
:idea: I have a feeling that it should be run in cycles :idea:, but I am unsure as to what the time periods should be. I would think that the current would stress out the fish, but they seem to do better with it on. It's strange, but then, I am rather new.

:idea:Lastly, I have a feeling I should change the "stock" bulbs to something different:idea:, but I am unsure whether to put 2 50/50's or an actinic white/blue in there. Any adivce would be appreciated ( I saw a DIY 13 watt PC upgrade, but it was for a different unit)

Thanks in advance for your input.

Tommy
Bobfish and Dorrie too

 

[Anonymous]

Many fish lose color when they are resting usually at night. My Yellow ttail damsel turns lavender at night and usually stays that way for a few mins after the light is on.

for now your lighting should be suffiecient seeing as you have no corals or any live rock. If you were planning this to be a reef tank my opinion would differ and you would most likely have to change your filtration setup.

a maxi jet 1200 for a 20 gal tank is a bit much. I would definetely change that for a smaller power head maybe one that only does 100 - 120 GPH rather than over 200 GPH. I would also leave the new power head on seeing as the eclipse hood only does a little bit of current

 

[Anonymous]

whopps sorry you do nave LR. ANother thing I forgot to mention is that they sell wavemaker that you hook powerheads up to with set wave patterns so you dont have to worry about pulling the plug all the time

 

[cdeakle]

FIRST AND FOREMOST! you should check your own water parameters. You should already have an ammonia, ph, nitrite, and nitrate testing kits on hand. Forget the LFS and do your own tests and often when fish are in distress.

Also, if you are now cycling your tank chances are your ammonia is sky high and your damsels will die unless you you fix it it time:

1) TEST TEST TEST TEST
2) WATER CHANGES WATER CHANGES WATER CHANGES

Also, your ph should be around 8.4

-puff

 

[tripsied]

Supaboy

That helped alot (I was rather nervous about the coloring) The wavemaker is on my list of "to get's". As for the lighting, I went to Costco's this afternoon and found the Lights of America 65 watt pc fixture for $10.00!!!!!!! I got 2 of them. Now I have to figure out how to retro them into the hood (or drop the hood entirely) and eventually put in a new filtration system.

They seem to be better this afternoon.

Puff

You are absolutely right, I really should have the test kits, but between the new tank, LR, LS and 2 kids, the money kinda ran out for the test kits, though I should be able to do that tomorrow! :lol:

As for the water change I was planning that for Friday (does that seem about right??) I figured 5 gallons ought to be enough. Does that also seem about right?

The ph was also measured before the LS and LR went into the tank. That should raise the ph slightly shouldn't it???

 

[hdtran]

5 gallon water change in a 20 gallon tank is fine, but I'd really do a water test first. If your water is horrible, I'd do two 5 gallon changes in a row (or a 10 gallon). Be sure that your new water is at the same temperature as the old water!!!

Blue damsels are quite hardy, and they shouldn't fade in the daytime, unless the water chemistry is bad. If your LFS won't test "because it's cycling," go find another LFS, and stop doing business with that LFS. Water tests are cheap to run.

If your tank is cycling, just change the water (5 gallon change) every other day. This will dilute down the ammonia/nitrite/nitrates. (In fact, since you've already got a few lbs of live rock in this tank, you should already have some good bacteria).

Last comment (too late, anyway): 20 gallon is pretty small for a saltwater setup, especially for a novice. I started with a 30 gallon tank for saltwater (fish only, some live rock), and had a hard time keeping up with the chemistry for the first 2-3 months. A larger tank would have been more forgiving.


Best of luck!

 

[Anonymous]

If your tank is cycling, just change the water (5 gallon change) every other day. This will dilute down the ammonia/nitrite/nitrates. (In fact, since you've already got a few lbs of live rock in this tank, you should already have some good bacteria).

Wouldnt that mess up the cycle?? Taking out water and diluting the ammonia and nitrate would cause a lack of good bacteria to colonize properly making a cycle not as efficient and in the event he drops a bigger bio load in the tank would cause a big spike due to the fact that there isnt enough good bacteria in there. I am not sure I would totally stop doing business with the LFS, while they should have tested they already new the out come - Bad water quality - due to the cycle.

To do a 50% water change with fish in it seems a bit risky to me as well. THe water chemistry could be off and a 50% would cause it to be off even more making the fish and little critters in the tank to stress more.

YOu could do a small amount of water changes every other day that could help like 2 gals every other day. THis would give the fish time to calm, settle and give you the same (if not better) results than one gigantic water change.

 

[hdtran]

Wouldnt that mess up the cycle?? Taking out water and diluting the ammonia and nitrate would cause a lack of good bacteria to colonize properly making a cycle not as efficient and in the event he drops a bigger bio load in the tank would cause a big spike due to the fact that there isnt enough good bacteria in there. I am not sure I would totally stop doing business with the LFS, while they should have tested they already new the out come - Bad water quality - due to the cycle.

That was my idea. I'd rather have a long, drawn out cycle, with just a gentle rise and fall of nitrites/nitrates, than have a sharp spike and decline. That was why my tank took a few months to settle down. The only deaths were due to someone cleaning the carpet with noxious chemicals. More work for you, admittedly, but I would think less cruel to the fish.

You're right on the 50% change in water being pretty drastic. But look at it this way: Would you rather go from 10ppm nitrite to 5 ppm nitrite (with a 50% change), or 10ppm to 7.5ppm (with a 25% change)? But you're right that if the chemistry is already messed up, a large change might mess it up even more. You've got to make sure your temperature, salinity, and pH are all good. Don't dump in fresh water to make up for a tank that's overly saline!

 

[hdtran]

Wouldnt that mess up the cycle?? Taking out water and diluting the ammonia and nitrate would cause a lack of good bacteria to colonize properly making a cycle not as efficient and in the event he drops a bigger bio load in the tank would cause a big spike due to the fact that there isnt enough good bacteria in there. I am not sure I would totally stop doing business with the LFS, while they should have tested they already new the out come - Bad water quality - due to the cycle.

That was my idea. I'd rather have a long, drawn out cycle, with just a gentle rise and fall of nitrites/nitrates, than have a sharp spike and decline. That was why my tank took a few months to settle down. The only deaths were due to someone cleaning the carpet with noxious chemicals. More work for you, admittedly, but I would think less cruel to the fish.

You're right on the 50% change in water being pretty drastic. But look at it this way: Would you rather go from 10ppm nitrite to 5 ppm nitrite (with a 50% change), or 10ppm to 7.5ppm (with a 25% change)? But you're right that if the chemistry is already messed up, a large change might mess it up even more. You've got to make sure your temperature, salinity, and pH are all good. Don't dump in fresh water to make up for a tank that's overly saline!

 

[hillbilly]

I'm not a fan of the "cycle your tank with fish"
method of cycling your tank. I don't think it's
cool to put that much stress on your captive
critters. However, good luck to you, and welcome
to the saltwater hobby!

 

[ChrisRD]

I agree, cycling with live fish is unnecessary and very stressful on the animals (victims).

 

[greenb]

I think you should do a 5-10% water change every couple of days until the fish are acting better. You need to make sure that the PH, Salinity, and Temperature are the same as your main tank.

Don't add any more live stock until your tank is fully cycled, and then when you do add something you have to go slowly. Meaning don't add more than 1 animal(except snails) at a time. You could overload your bio load. And be right back in this situation in no time.

hth
bob

 

[tripsied]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I decided I had better take some advice so I ran out last night and got the test kits! (I shoulda done that last week) The leves are:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 20 ppm
Nitrite - 0
Total Hardnes (??) - 250 ppm
Alkalinity - 280
pH - 8.0

SG .024

These levels seems to indicate that the tank is fully cycled. Does that seem correct??

 

[Anonymous]

not yet but it looks like you are on the last leg
Nitrates need to go away before your cycle is done