Coil Denitrator

[Nitrate Junkie]

Just when i thought that the battles lines were drawn between DSB advocates and Non DSB reefers, I stumble upon an occasional mention of Coil Denitrators. What are they, Santa Claus?? are they too good to be true, and if not can I have one for Chrissie?!?!?!? Why doesnt every good little reefer have one?
Cheers from Sydney
(Man, some of you yanks are hard core aquarists, I take my hat off to you!)

 

[Fatal Morgana]

>...Why doesnt every good little reefer have one?

There is obviously some reasons for the lack of popularity. First of all, it can be tricky to setup/use/maintain. Definitely not for people looking for a miracle.

It works by using a very long tubing so that as tank water flow thru it at very... very... very ssssllllllooooowwww rate, the oxygen in the water will be depleted. Anaerobic bacteria in the rest of the tubing then work on the water without much oxygen, and use the nitrate as fuel for it metabolism. As a result, the water coming out from the other end will have a lower nitrate than the feed water.

I would only recommand this gadget to advanced fish-only folks who tried very hard to keep the nitrate low without success, and water change is prohibitively expensive. Otherwise, it is just another psedo-useful gadget that will take up valueable space, make your wallet thinner, and give you more white hairs.

 

[Len]

The reasons why they're not popular is they need to be properly dialed in, fed nutrients to sustain the anaerobic bacteria, and aren't really a feasible solution for larger tanks because the flow rate has to be very slow. That said, on small tanks, they have been shown to work if you keep up with the monitoring and maintanence. Personally, I'd probably try other devices before resorting to denitrators.

 

[Nitrate Junkie]

Thanks guys,
I was beginning to get depressed. I have a 72"x18"x20" tank, DSB 4-5", 25kg LR, various frags, 1 yellow, 1 blue tang, 2 oscellaris clowns, 1 cleaner wrasse, 1 abalone, 1 CBShrimp, a couple of snails, a couple of hairy crabs and a wily mantis shrimp :x My sump is my main concern, being 2' long, half full, with nothing inside but a heater, and a 4600L/hr pump. A smaller pump also runs an elcheapo skimmer. Things seem to be working very well, but I'm living in fear of the alleged DSB apocalypse, so I really want my sump to be up to scratch. Dilemma no.2 - DSB in refugium?!?!?

 

[ChrisRD]

FWIW.... ...personally I've never found it necessary to have a coil denitrator or a DSB to maintain undetectable levels of nitrates. Just plenty of good live rock, a good skimmer and good husbandry habits. JME.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with the people above. IMO, you better of getting a decent skimmer ("an elcheapo skimmer...") instead of anything else.

How bad is your nitrate level? What is the nitrate level in your topff/water change?

 

[Nitrate Junkie]

My nitrates are barely detectable, and I'm happy with the chemistry. I had a 2' tank previously, with a 1" crushed coral substrate, good flow etc but nitrates always hovering around 15-20 ppm. (Hence my affectionate adoption of this as my Login name). In sheer frustration, I searched high and low for a solution, and made the move into a larger system (6'), and 4-5" DSB. My nitrates are now orgasmically low. But I've pumped so much cash into this thing, that I really want to do the best thing for it. By the way I'm preparing a new sump setup, and yes, I will invest in a decent skimmer.
By the way, this weekend I ventured into the LFS, fell in love with a beautiful crimson coral. Asked the shopkeeper about hardiness, special instructions, requirements etc. Was told theyv'e not had any probs..... Anyway got home and found out that it was a Dendronephthya.(*!$#@). Phoned the shopkeeper right back and he said he'll replace it if it dies. Dilemma - I have a good system, I'm prepared to put care into it. Can it make it?!?. Or should I return it and doom it to certain death anyway?

 

[Anonymous]

To me plant life is much better than a dsb, nitrate reactor, or any other anaerobic process.

 

[Fatal Morgana]

>...Dilemma - I have a good system, I'm prepared to put care into it. Can it make it?!?. Or should I return it and doom it to certain death anyway?

I feel you should return it to the shop and demand a full refund, just to give them a lesson. Crappy advice from the LFS ("Asked the shopkeeper about hardiness, special instructions, requirements etc. Was told theyv'e not had any probs..... ") is what going to disappoint people when thing don't work out the way they were told by pushy salemen. Just say enough to get your credit card, then do the damage controll when you call back ("replace it if it dies"). Don't you feel like you are being used for an experimental drug or something ?

>...To me plant life is much better than a dsb, nitrate reactor, or any other anaerobic process.

No Kidding!

To me, not using crappy water in the first place is much better than any plant life.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey guys, Just noticed there is a hairy crab in Nitrate Junkie's tank.

Are they a no no for reef systems? like eating the polphs or the like?

Just curious.

 

[Fatal Morgana]

Some hairy crabs are harmless, but gorilla crab can be a nasty bastard sometimes. If it is in the sump, then there should be little damage any crab can do other than get sucked into the return pump.

 

[Nitrate Junkie]

Beaslbob,
Can you give me some advice on plant setups. I'm planning a new sump with a refugium built in, probably with plants. Expect i will put a double batten with one white and one blue fluoro on a timer. I read that caulerpa can play toxic star wars with everything else in the tank, is there anything you can recommend? I just got clump of turtle grass, so for the time being i plopped it into my main tank. My y tang has ignored it so far. Should i move it? Also, what do you think of mangrove setups in the sump?
ps. ive been trying to catch the hairy crab for weeks now, mainly out of prevention. So far hasnt done any damage, in fact, scavenges and digs around the DSB turning over sand. Who knows what hell do when he grows up?!?!?

 

[ChrisRD]

Gracilaria sp. and Chaetamorpha sp. are both macros commonly used for nutrient export. Personally, I've never heard of anyone complaining about toxicity or crashes with either of those. I've never tried Mangroves myself, but reportedly they grow slowly and don't offer much in the way of nutrient export by comparison to macro algaes.

 

[Anonymous]

Beaslbob,
Can you give me some advice on plant setups. I'm planning a new sump with a refugium built in, probably with plants. Expect i will put a double batten with one white and one blue fluoro on a timer. I read that caulerpa can play toxic star wars with everything else in the tank, is there anything you can recommend? I just got clump of turtle grass, so for the time being i plopped it into my main tank. My y tang has ignored it so far. Should i move it? Also, what do you think of mangrove setups in the sump?
ps. ive been trying to catch the hairy crab for weeks now, mainly out of prevention. So far hasnt done any damage, in fact, scavenges and digs around the DSB turning over sand. Who knows what hell do when he grows up?!?!?

In this thread: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57481

It shows my tank and the attached picture shows the lighting i use.

Yes you are correct caulerpa can go sexual and make a mess. I have never seen that happen with prolifera but did have problems with a feather caulpera that had been in shippment 3 days, in hot weather, and was placed in a tank with 0.0 nitrates. So I can happen. I think a key is to make sure the plant life has nutrients and are harvested frequently. the harvesting also exports heavy metals and toxins.

Chaeto does nice in a refugium because it just grows to whatever shape the container is.

I use utility fixtures with 4100k lights. The fixtures on top are modified so that each has two ballasts with each ballast driving only one tube. So about 55w is deleivered to each tube. Cost of all the fixtures and tubes was around $50-60 US or so.

nitrates went to and have stayed at 0.0 after adding the back mounted, pointing forward fixtures. Cyano (red slime) bloomed when nitrates went under 10ppm then went away three weeks later when nitrates were 0.0 and I harvested about 1/2 the macros. Chaeto and grape (now plus feather and an other caulerpa) rapidily expanded with the addition of the back lights. And the chaeto bacially stays in the in tank refug. My yellow tang pokes his nose through the grids and slurps some chaeto all day. I now have a bunch of baby turbo snails also. With two clip-on lights on the back the chaeto was not as fast growing, and grape never lasted long. nitrates also remained over 30-40 ppm. So the extra lighting really helped.

In my external ~ 8g sump/refug I have a single 18w flour (90w equilivant to incand.) Chaeto survived in there but never really really took off.

Turtle grass should be excellent because it is a vascular true marine plant. I tried some but could not get it to spread. It was also under very low lighting. I hope you get it established.

I have heard the external refugiums should be 30% of the display volumn or more. Of course that depends on bioload and the plant life in the display. But in my 55g with an 8g fuge and low lighting, nitrates never went to 0.0.

HTH.

 

[Anonymous]

nitrate Junkie

I have no experience with mangroves but "gut" feel is that a mangrove forest would make a very interesting houseplant. Maybe you could tap off your overflow to a plastic container, and have that container drain the sump. And just have the mangroves sitting beside the tank. Possibly people would be more interestind in the mangroves than the tank though.

As I said no experience. Just an idea.

 

[Anonymous]

Mangroves are interesting, but they grow slowly and require a little extra care so only get them in you want them, don't get them if you expect them to do some filtration.

 

[Anonymous]

To me plant life is much better than a dsb, nitrate reactor, or any other anaerobic process.

Beaslbob's methodologies might work for him (has not been proven), but they're unorthodoxed and not recommended by most (actually all) experienced hobbyists I know. We recommend new reefkeepers stick with tried and true methods like those successful systems you've seen featured in print and online magazine