? G.P.H. ON RETURN PUMPS..
- Thread starter ticker
- Start date
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you inquiring about the flow rate of the oveflow? That will depend on the overflow design and the downpipe diameter. If you're asking about the gph on return pumps, it will depend on which pump you use and how much head pressure there is.
It sounds to me like you're asking what size (or flow rate) of a sump return pump you should be looking for to achieve the necessary flow for a reef system.. - Am I right??
If thats the case, the general rule of thumb for reef systems is a turnover rate of at least 10 times if not 20 times per hour. That would mean that you'll want to achieve a flow of between 1000 and 2000 gph. (If you plan on keeping SPS, plan on shooting for the high end..)
The kicker here though, is that your sump return doesn't HAVE to provide all of the flow. - Most folks don't really design them to anyway, since thats pushing a lot of water across the sump and a lot of times the sump is also used to house a refugium - which would probably have a tough time dealing with all that flow (depending on the design)..
SO... - I would probably shoot for a pump that will give flow that falls at the bottom of that range (~1000 gph) and then plan for either a closed loop or a system of powerheads of some sort (or another form of supplimental flow such as a surge device) to make up the difference (its also nice because you essentially have a redundant source of emergency water flow in case you lose a pump...)
And remember to plan for head loss too.. - Unless your sump is going to sit somewhere REAL near to the same height as your main tank. - You'll need to plan out how the plumbing will work (avoid 90 degree elbows if possible) to get the height/pressure your pump will be fighting to get water back up and into the tank.
<whew!>
Ok, I know I threw a lot out there all at once too so don't be shy about it if I happened to lob anything over your head. (And to everyone: feel free to correct me if I goofed - I appreciate it!)
Hope that helps and good luck!
Norm
If thats the case, the general rule of thumb for reef systems is a turnover rate of at least 10 times if not 20 times per hour. That would mean that you'll want to achieve a flow of between 1000 and 2000 gph. (If you plan on keeping SPS, plan on shooting for the high end..)
The kicker here though, is that your sump return doesn't HAVE to provide all of the flow. - Most folks don't really design them to anyway, since thats pushing a lot of water across the sump and a lot of times the sump is also used to house a refugium - which would probably have a tough time dealing with all that flow (depending on the design)..
SO... - I would probably shoot for a pump that will give flow that falls at the bottom of that range (~1000 gph) and then plan for either a closed loop or a system of powerheads of some sort (or another form of supplimental flow such as a surge device) to make up the difference (its also nice because you essentially have a redundant source of emergency water flow in case you lose a pump...)
And remember to plan for head loss too.. - Unless your sump is going to sit somewhere REAL near to the same height as your main tank. - You'll need to plan out how the plumbing will work (avoid 90 degree elbows if possible) to get the height/pressure your pump will be fighting to get water back up and into the tank.
<whew!>
Ok, I know I threw a lot out there all at once too so don't be shy about it if I happened to lob anything over your head. (And to everyone: feel free to correct me if I goofed - I appreciate it!)
Hope that helps and good luck!
Norm
GratefulDiver, thanks...i was talking about the return pump in the sump to the tank..thanks...
1000-2000 gph, i'm useing a Rio 3100, @ 900gph...and also have i believe three 2100 Rio power heads in the tank on a wave machine...
The reson i was asking was 'cause i'm overflowing into a micron bag and having to change it about every other day. So i thought mabe i was useing a to powerful return pump and forceing prematurly into the bag...
Also i would like to plan on houseing a refugium in my sump, do you have any help with that???
Thanks for you time...and also what do you think of my return and power head set up???
1000-2000 gph, i'm useing a Rio 3100, @ 900gph...and also have i believe three 2100 Rio power heads in the tank on a wave machine...
The reson i was asking was 'cause i'm overflowing into a micron bag and having to change it about every other day. So i thought mabe i was useing a to powerful return pump and forceing prematurly into the bag...
Also i would like to plan on houseing a refugium in my sump, do you have any help with that???
Thanks for you time...and also what do you think of my return and power head set up???
Well... - I'd say you're ok on flow amout for the lower-flow stuff. - But probably the biggest red flag everyone is going to tell you is that the Rio brand name is one to stay away from right now.. - Apparently they're notorious for failing and poisoning tanks.
On the powerheads though.. - Rio is putting a new model out there called the SEIO which from what I hear isn't too bad. -- I would give it time still though and not run right out and get those instead.. The failures I've read about apparently take some time to happen and the SEIOs just haven't been out all that long yet.
I know, not what you want to hear, but unfortunately a lot of us have gotten burned buying the wrong stuff right off the bat. (I'm included.. - I thought I could get away with a Seaclone skimmer..)
As for the micron bag... - I guess I'm not sure what you mean about having to change it out.. - Is it getting clogged or ripping apart? For the most part you don't usually have to use a bag of any sort on the overflow (unless you want to make sure you have a way of catching any stray fish, snails, crabs or whatever that might make a trip down the drain..) -- They do make great places to put things, like poly pads or what have you, but ideally you shouldn't have to use that sort of stuff very often, if at all. (Regular water changes are probably the safest way to maintain good water quality..)
On the sump/fuge design... - Heres a pic of what I had planned for mine (never got around to it yet, had to move and not running anything bigger than a 12g nanocube now..) - but.. - it does give the basics real quick..
This is a small, extremely basic sump/fuge, designed for my 30g.. - Its also designed to house my Euroreef ES5-2 skimmer.. - The overflow from the main tank would drain into the skimmer chamber and then flow into the fuge area and then to the return pump area.
There are a LOT of changes I would make to this now though. - Too many to get into without turning this into a book. - The key thing though is having your skimmer in front of your fuge so that any pods that exit the fuge don't get chopped up and skimmed away, instead they might just get a little chopped up by the return pump.
On the powerheads though.. - Rio is putting a new model out there called the SEIO which from what I hear isn't too bad. -- I would give it time still though and not run right out and get those instead.. The failures I've read about apparently take some time to happen and the SEIOs just haven't been out all that long yet.
I know, not what you want to hear, but unfortunately a lot of us have gotten burned buying the wrong stuff right off the bat. (I'm included.. - I thought I could get away with a Seaclone skimmer..)
As for the micron bag... - I guess I'm not sure what you mean about having to change it out.. - Is it getting clogged or ripping apart? For the most part you don't usually have to use a bag of any sort on the overflow (unless you want to make sure you have a way of catching any stray fish, snails, crabs or whatever that might make a trip down the drain..) -- They do make great places to put things, like poly pads or what have you, but ideally you shouldn't have to use that sort of stuff very often, if at all. (Regular water changes are probably the safest way to maintain good water quality..)
On the sump/fuge design... - Heres a pic of what I had planned for mine (never got around to it yet, had to move and not running anything bigger than a 12g nanocube now..) - but.. - it does give the basics real quick..
This is a small, extremely basic sump/fuge, designed for my 30g.. - Its also designed to house my Euroreef ES5-2 skimmer.. - The overflow from the main tank would drain into the skimmer chamber and then flow into the fuge area and then to the return pump area.
There are a LOT of changes I would make to this now though. - Too many to get into without turning this into a book. - The key thing though is having your skimmer in front of your fuge so that any pods that exit the fuge don't get chopped up and skimmed away, instead they might just get a little chopped up by the return pump.
Thanks on the power head advise. "posion" is that 'cause thier stop working and no curculation in the tank?
My sump is like the same size as your refuge, 13w16h30l. Do you know if there is a size that should be used for a 100gal? And also you said you would change some of your design, i'm interested. I got the protein skimmer, a wall, then refuge, couple walls, then return.
On the changing the micon bag, i'm loading up with waste and haveing to change it every other day. But i'm finding that i might be using to low of a micron. I'm working on that.
On the power heads what are being use out there, on for a 100 gal.
-thanks for you help
My sump is like the same size as your refuge, 13w16h30l. Do you know if there is a size that should be used for a 100gal? And also you said you would change some of your design, i'm interested. I got the protein skimmer, a wall, then refuge, couple walls, then return.
On the changing the micon bag, i'm loading up with waste and haveing to change it every other day. But i'm finding that i might be using to low of a micron. I'm working on that.
On the power heads what are being use out there, on for a 100 gal.
-thanks for you help
The "poison" issue is that (from what I've heard) the motors apparently melt their housings and leak some sort of oil into the tank.
What I'd change with my sump design is that I'd probably add in a couple walls in front of the fuge so that water is flowing into it from the center of the water column instead of the top like it is below. - Reason is, I'd probably have sand and rock with the rock anchoring down some gracillaria and chaetomorpha instead of caulerpa like I had planned originally.
As for powerheads, most people tend to prefer Maxijets. - Right now I'm using a combination of Maxijets, Penguins and whatever brand it is that Walmart sells. - I haven't heard of any major catastrophes with powerheads except in cases where there was only one source of flow and there was a failure. - But yeah, on the return pump it'd be a good idea to replace that as soon as you can. - You might get away with still using it if you setup a closed loop or something where it won't have much pressure/head height to fight though.. - Personally, I'd hang onto it and use it to mix salt or something like that.. - Maybe keep it on hand as just an emergency backup. - Not all has to be lost with any bad buy.. - I'm using that crappy Seaclone skimmer I messed up in buying to help provide flow and a little bit of skimming on the 10g I downgraded to.. - Its basically one of the two powerheads I use in the system.. :wink:
As far as what sort of sump to use on a 100g... - Its like all the rest of it.. - Just a matter of choice.. - Me, in my current situation I'm actually thinking about a 100g setup.. - The sump would probably be something near to a 60g with areas setup for the skimmer, fuge, calcium reactor and return(s). - Also with the extra space I'd try to get it setup so that no surface proteins could develop in the sump.. - ALL water is surface skimmed somehow. - I'd do that with this setup too but there just isn't the space to do all I'd want to do..
Anyway, here a pic of the mods I'd do with it.. - Nothing major, just a few tweaks..
Norm
What I'd change with my sump design is that I'd probably add in a couple walls in front of the fuge so that water is flowing into it from the center of the water column instead of the top like it is below. - Reason is, I'd probably have sand and rock with the rock anchoring down some gracillaria and chaetomorpha instead of caulerpa like I had planned originally.
As for powerheads, most people tend to prefer Maxijets. - Right now I'm using a combination of Maxijets, Penguins and whatever brand it is that Walmart sells. - I haven't heard of any major catastrophes with powerheads except in cases where there was only one source of flow and there was a failure. - But yeah, on the return pump it'd be a good idea to replace that as soon as you can. - You might get away with still using it if you setup a closed loop or something where it won't have much pressure/head height to fight though.. - Personally, I'd hang onto it and use it to mix salt or something like that.. - Maybe keep it on hand as just an emergency backup. - Not all has to be lost with any bad buy.. - I'm using that crappy Seaclone skimmer I messed up in buying to help provide flow and a little bit of skimming on the 10g I downgraded to.. - Its basically one of the two powerheads I use in the system.. :wink:
As far as what sort of sump to use on a 100g... - Its like all the rest of it.. - Just a matter of choice.. - Me, in my current situation I'm actually thinking about a 100g setup.. - The sump would probably be something near to a 60g with areas setup for the skimmer, fuge, calcium reactor and return(s). - Also with the extra space I'd try to get it setup so that no surface proteins could develop in the sump.. - ALL water is surface skimmed somehow. - I'd do that with this setup too but there just isn't the space to do all I'd want to do..
Anyway, here a pic of the mods I'd do with it.. - Nothing major, just a few tweaks..
Norm
Attachments
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
