Newbie upgrading from FO to Reef......please please advise.

[Deep Blue]

Hello and thanks in advance.

I am seeking the opinions of experienced reef keepers on my current set up and what the next things YOU WOULD ADD if this were your system:

Tank: 65G 36x18x24
1'-2' inch of crushed coral (on bottom)
3'-5' inch argonite live sand (on top of crushed coral)
Roughly 80lb of Live rock (been in FO for 22 months
Two Maxi-jet 1200 (295US/ Gal/hr)
1 100W Titanium heater (in skimmer)
Red Sea Prism Pro Protein Skimmer (rated for 300G tank)-Works great x 18 months with no problems.
Custom Sealife Power compact (65wx2- One 10,000 and One Actinic-2moon lights)
Custom Sealfie Power compact: (96wx2-Same two bulbs-3 moon lights)
(Thats 320W total for those that dont want to do the math- 4.954 Wats per Gallon.)
1 Spare pump for Protein skimmer in cabinent underneath:

Tank is 22 months old and has supported a population of 2-4 fish without difficuties. Moderate amount of corraline pink algae.

Preparation tank-10 Gallon with 1 power head, crushed coral, 100W titanium heater and a hang on the back filter.
Preparation method: 1)Dionized water filter to 5Gal bucket 2)Add Instant Ocean 3)Store 10Gal in prep tank x2weeks. Water change 10Gal/2 weeks.

Planned load: 2-3 Fish, snails, crabs, shrimp, and corals.

Planned purchases: One) 2 Maxijet 400 powerheads: (106g/hr) Two) 40lbs of more live rock Three)Timers for lights. Four)? Wavemaker for power heads?

Now here are my questions:
1) What would you do different or what would you do next?
2) What and how much will my tank be able to support? (LPS corals? SPS corals? Fish?)
3) Where can I begin reading about the differnt types and requirments for corals (I already have Tullock and Fenner)

And anything else you might want to add....

 

[Len]

I think you have a good plan going there. In your prep tank, I'd remove the crushed coral if you're using this tank to prepare new water and/or quarentine new animals.

The planned bioload looks great. I really like your idea of keeping fish stock low; most people don't have the self-control Three to four small to medium sized fish will be fine. As for corals, feel free to slowly add as many as you'd like while giving each colony room to grow. Bioload isn't really the major concern here; aggression is. I'd start with LPS corals, then progress up to some easier to keep SPS like Montipora. You might not be able to keep some of the truly light-demanding varieties, but your lights will suffice for all LPS and many SPS.

Borneman has a good coral book. If you look in the Reefs.org library, there is a recommended readings list which should be of some utility to you

 

[Anonymous]

If you don't have one already, I recommend adding a refugium. And having lotsa thriving macros or true marine plants.

Other than that I think you could easily support your planned bioload with what that.

Oh just noticed you have sand on top of crushed coral. How's that working out? I have heard the sand will tend to sink to the bottom and the crushed coral rise to the top of the substraight.

 

[Deep Blue]

Oh just noticed you have sand on top of crushed coral. How's that working out? I have heard the sand will tend to sink to the bottom and the crushed coral rise to the top of the substraight.

In 22 months that hasnt been a problem. I dont have any sand sifting life in there though. The sand has slightly "seeded" the coral but since my sand band is thicker than the layer of coral, even if it "completely" sinks, the coral will still be under a layer of pure sand.

I didnt know what I was doing when I first set this thing up.

Will my DSB crash my system eventually????????????????

When my circulation is low, its easy to spot the bubles of gas being released from the sand bed....I always thought that was a good thing and the whole point...

 

[Anonymous]

I guess any tank setup today will crash sometime in the next 1,000 years.

That said I personally do not like DSB operation. I instead rely on plant life, refugiums, and good ol'e aerobic water flow through my oyster shell filter media. and have ran simple tanks for 6 years straight with no water changes. But that is just me.

If the gas bubble is nitrogen than it is good. If methane or a sulphur compound than bad. But perhaps others can comment. I just don't have any gas bubbles in my system.

Bob

 

[Len]

My 120 gallon got to 10 years with a DSB without a problem. It's life is coming to an end due to electrical short in the tank and mushroom overgrowth.

 

[ChrisRD]

That said I personally do not like DSB operation. I instead rely on plant life, refugiums, and good ol'e aerobic water flow through my oyster shell filter media. and have ran simple tanks for 6 years straight with no water changes. But that is just me.

A reef tank? Keep in mind you can get away with lots of stuff in an FO tank that won't work very well with a reef...

 

[benthos]

If it were Me...and BTW still somewhat a newbie...but I wouldnt dive right into LPS or SPS until you get a feel for the softies. The reason being a majority of the soft corals are less expensive and if for some reason some of your parameters are off the softies can be easily replaced, also when keeping stony corals you will need to be paying more attention to the CA / alk relationship which is not the case for softies. Some green star polyps, zooanthids, shrooms, will provide tons of entertainment until you get that itch to start adding montiporas, then the next step to Metal Halides.

 

[Anonymous]

That said I personally do not like DSB operation. I instead rely on plant life, refugiums, and good ol'e aerobic water flow through my oyster shell filter media. and have ran simple tanks for 6 years straight with no water changes. But that is just me.

A reef tank? Keep in mind you can get away with lots of stuff in an FO tank that won't work very well with a reef...

Chris: your point is well taken and the 6 year tank was a FO system. With my current 55g, I have had some corals for over a year, ca is 425ppm alk is 2.5 meg/l mag is 1270ppm just before light off ph is 8.4, ammonia,nitrItes and nitrAtes all 0.0. All with no water changes and not dosing. Sps' and zoos are showing growth. $50 of lighting, non limestone based dead rocks for decoration, silica play sand 1" deap for substraight. I feel sure water changes are not necessary. But then it is not a DSB type system.

 

[Deep Blue]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I now have a new thing I would like opinions on....

Should I get the refugium now or later.....what kind and from who....and what size?

 

[Anonymous]

I would build a refugium as the very first thing and have it the very first thing operational as well.

That way the macro algaes gets ahead and stays ahead of the nusiance algaes and starts maintaining the system from the start.


I have an in tank refugium which i like. Just an egg crate partitioning the tank. Or you can build an external. And there are HOB refugiums also.

The bigger the better. Some even recomment at least 20-30% if display volumn. But Any size will help just that the bigger the better.

 

[ChrisRD]

Bob, do you have any pictures of your setup? It would be interesting to see how you have things setup to maintain a Ca of 425 with no water changes or Ca additions for over a year. In my time in the hobby, I've never known a single setup where this was possible.

 

[ChrisRD]

Should I get the refugium now or later.....what kind and from who....and what size?

First, let me say that a refugium is definitely optional. If you look around you'll see lots of great reef tanks that have no refugium, so I think that's proof enough of that.

Second, although more and more people in the hobby are referring to a refugium as somewhere to grow macro algaes, these are really two different concepts IMO.

A refugium is intended to be a place where pods/critters can multiply with no predation and provide some natural food for you tank. Generally in a healthy reef this is already happening in sumps, overflows, hang-on filters, rockwork, etc. (basically anywhere fish can't get to them and eat them). Having a separate tank for more water volume and more pod proliferation is certainly a good idea, but IMO it's optional, so if you don't have the room for this, don't sweat it.

Using algae growth/harvesting to export nutrients is nothing new. It's referred to as an algae filter or an algae scrubber and it's a technique that's been around for many years. Do an internet search on Walter H. Adey - he wrote a book on this.

Anyway, on to the point... For some this algae scrubbing technique may be necessary, and helpful, but for some it's just not needed or beneficial. It really depends on your system and how it is setup. It is possible to run a system so nutrient poor that you couldn't grow macro algaes in your refugium if you wanted to. Also, there are potential downsides to relying on algae for nutrient export, so it's not all roses. Most folks today just use it as another tool in a system that relys on several mechanisms of export.

Just wanted to put things in perspective for some of our newcomers.

 

[Anonymous]

Bob, do you have any pictures of your setup? It would be interesting to see how you have things setup to maintain a Ca of 425 with no water changes or Ca additions for over a year. In my time in the hobby, I've never known a single setup where this was possible.

Here is a thread on the in tank refug done right after I set it up. http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthr ... did=101556

And the external sump/refug is in this thread: http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthr ... adid=82529
The powerhead powering that has been replace with a mag 5 pump and the crushed coral filter media is now crushed oyster shells.

I never said calcium is not being added to the system. Just that I don't dose. Calcium rose from 250-300 to 400ppm in about 4 weeks after I added the oyster shells. The last three weeks Ca has tested at 425 with the seachum test kig which tests the reference 400ppm calcium between 390 and 410. A macro algae tank with the same basic setup, water management but no oyster shells has remained at 250-300ppm.



I also just got a seachum mag test kit. mag tested at 1268ppm with the reference 1350ppm testing at 1368ppm.


Bob

 

[ChrisRD]

In the pics I don't see much in the way of calcifying corals or coralline algae which would explain why the tank has very low Ca demand.

In a tank stocked with stony corals and healthy coralline algae growth you'll have to provide a lot more Ca by utilizing one or more of the conventional methods (ie. dosing kalkwasser, using a reactor, a Ca additive, two-part, etc.)

BTW, apologies to the original poster for the sidetrack...