My 55 gal tank was running without any problems except for my nitrates where around 20ppm right before my weekly water change. I wanted to reduce my nitrates and on advice from my LFS I added some substrate (crushed coral) to deepen my bed. I read many articles on sandbeds and denitrifying bacteria, but was unsure if a deeper bed would work with crushed coral. My LFS assured me that it would. After deepening my crushed coral bed, my nitrates reduced to zero, my ph went up (finally coming back down to 8.4), but red algae hasn't stopped growing on my substrate. I'm getting very frustrated and tired of battling it. It's been at least a few months now. Any help, suggestions, or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Red Algae
- Thread starter RockInBrookPark
- Start date
Hi and :welcome:
Most folks avoid a deep bed of crushed coral because detritus will build-up in it if it's not vacuumed regularly. As the detritus decomposes it will release nutrients into the system and can cause issues with water quality and nuisance algae.
Can you describe your setup in more detail? It would be easier to point you in the right direction if we knew more about your setup.
Most folks avoid a deep bed of crushed coral because detritus will build-up in it if it's not vacuumed regularly. As the detritus decomposes it will release nutrients into the system and can cause issues with water quality and nuisance algae.
Can you describe your setup in more detail? It would be easier to point you in the right direction if we knew more about your setup.
RockInBrookPark":pmzv47e8 said:My 55 gal tank was running without any problems except for my nitrates where around 20ppm right before my weekly water change. I wanted to reduce my nitrates and on advice from my LFS I added some substrate (crushed coral) to deepen my bed. I read many articles on sandbeds and denitrifying bacteria, but was unsure if a deeper bed would work with crushed coral. My LFS assured me that it would. After deepening my crushed coral bed, my nitrates reduced to zero, my ph went up (finally coming back down to 8.4), but red algae hasn't stopped growing on my substrate. I'm getting very frustrated and tired of battling it. It's been at least a few months now. Any help, suggestions, or advice would be greatly appreciated.
I and at least one other person had exactly the same thing happen. Nitrates went to 0.0 then the red algae took off. In my case after a week or two it subsided on its own.
What I think happened to all three of us was cyano bacteria. I hear cyano consumes phosphates and takes nitrogen from the air. I suspect it just waits around for the right condition then blooms. With nitrates green plant life is present and helping consume the phosphates. As nitrates go down that plant life slows growth and is much less active. And less phosphates are being consumed by the plant life. And bingo--- here comes the cyano. So actually, a cyano bloom seems to be a good indicator the nitrates are finally under control.
Some use filters to designed to remove the phosphates. I harvest some of the macros to encourage new growth. And with a few weeks the cyano subsided. Which would seem to be a good visual indicator the phosphates were reduced.
So reduced macro growth, followed by a cyano (red algae) bloom, then followed by the red going away, would seem to be a good indicator that ammonia, nitrates, and phosphates are all nearly 0.0. And things are going pretty well.
ChrisRD is right, how about a little more information regarding how long your tank has been set up, what's the occupant load like, filtration, etc.?
If it's a newer set up, as Chris said, the CC substate can be a real "detrius garbage can" because of the size of the gravel (as opposed to sand) can trap excess "fish poop" which as it gets reased back into the system feeds those nasty algae blooms.
If it's older, there is a school of thought that when deep sand beds/CC bed gets older, they can also get "full" and release nutrients back into the sytem.
If it's a newer set up, as Chris said, the CC substate can be a real "detrius garbage can" because of the size of the gravel (as opposed to sand) can trap excess "fish poop" which as it gets reased back into the system feeds those nasty algae blooms.
If it's older, there is a school of thought that when deep sand beds/CC bed gets older, they can also get "full" and release nutrients back into the sytem.
I have a 55 gal tank with about 40-50lbs of live rock. Crushed coral bed about an inch thick. I have an Emperor 400 hang on filter. I also run a seaclone protein skimmer. Fish include a blue hippo tang, coral beauty, two small clown fish and a golden neon goby. Plus some snails and hermit crabs. I've had the tank running about a year (and still learning). I've read that it is not uncommon for an cyno bloom after adding substrate, but I've been battling the problem for months. I clean the substrate at least once a week and sometimes two, tyring to keep the algae under control. I do have phosphate in the tank (.25 mg/L). I've tested my exchange water and it has none. How do I rid the tank of the phosphate? For good. And when will the red menace stop! Thanks for all the help.
Cyano (aka red slime algae) is common and is generally a sign of higher nutrients/poor water quality in the system. It's not uncommon to periodically see a patch of it in an established system. It's also normal to see a bloom at some point in a new tank while things are settling down. If it's a regular, persistent problem, in a mature tank, however, then you have water quality and/or circulation issues IME/IMO.
The crushed coral could be part of the problem and may be trapping detritus. It will have to be vacuumed regularly to avoid nutrient issues, so I'd remove it personally. IMO you have enough live rock to provide all the biological filtration you need, so I'd go with anything from a barebottom up to maybe an inch or two of aragonite sand.
Things to do, or look out for to decrease nutrient levels and increase water quality:
1. Make sure you skimmer is producing plenty of dark, smelly skimmate every week. If not, it's not performing its function.
2. Use a pure source of water (like RO) for top-off and water changes.
3. Do regular water changes.
4. Don't overfeed. If it take more than a few minutes for the fish to consume the food you're overdoing it.
5. Lots of circulation - throw in a few powerheads.
6. Run activated carbon periodically (or full-time if you like).
7. Clean the cartridges in the Emperor filter often (at least weekly).
8. Do not use random supplements/liquid foods. Only supplement things you're testing for.
HTH
The crushed coral could be part of the problem and may be trapping detritus. It will have to be vacuumed regularly to avoid nutrient issues, so I'd remove it personally. IMO you have enough live rock to provide all the biological filtration you need, so I'd go with anything from a barebottom up to maybe an inch or two of aragonite sand.
Things to do, or look out for to decrease nutrient levels and increase water quality:
1. Make sure you skimmer is producing plenty of dark, smelly skimmate every week. If not, it's not performing its function.
2. Use a pure source of water (like RO) for top-off and water changes.
3. Do regular water changes.
4. Don't overfeed. If it take more than a few minutes for the fish to consume the food you're overdoing it.
5. Lots of circulation - throw in a few powerheads.
6. Run activated carbon periodically (or full-time if you like).
7. Clean the cartridges in the Emperor filter often (at least weekly).
8. Do not use random supplements/liquid foods. Only supplement things you're testing for.
HTH
Another thing you can do is favor frozen foods. Flake/pellet can be loaded with phosphate. Also, I like to thaw frozen foods in some warm water and then strain through a net before feeding. Those juices are very nutrient rich as well...
RockInBrookPark":2vq354ls said:...
I clean the substrate at least once a week and sometimes two, tyring to keep the algae under control. I do have phosphate in the tank (.25 mg/L). I've tested my exchange water and it has none. How do I rid the tank of the phosphate?
The best way is to get something other than the cyano consuming the phosphates. Add or add more macros algae (in a refug) and the cyano will eventually go away. Regardless of the phosphates in the input water, the substrait, how often the tank is cleaned, the amount of livstock, what or how much the livestock is fed.
I disagree with bob. Macro will consume phosphates, that much I agree with. However, it is very dangerous to suggest that you can add any amount of polluted water, food, and other sources of nutrient import and expect the macro to handle it all. Practice responsible habits and don't rely on any quick fixes as there is none in this hobby.
There are phosphate sponges that help you lower the PO4 levels, and water changes with good quality water will work. But ultimately the only solution is to make sure you aren't importing too much PO4 and other nutrients into the tank and to be succesful at exporting nutrients that you unintentionally add (via water, food, etc.). A RO/DI filter and a good skimmer will go a long way into helping you succeed. The RO/DI will stem the import of nutrients, and the skimmer will help remove excessive nutrients (in the form of dissolved organics as well as algae .... tests of skimmate confirm it is as much a microalgae filter as anything else). A refugium with macro can help as well. Again, none of these are complete solutions by themselves and it's best to attack the nutrient problem on all fronts.
Hope that helps.
There are phosphate sponges that help you lower the PO4 levels, and water changes with good quality water will work. But ultimately the only solution is to make sure you aren't importing too much PO4 and other nutrients into the tank and to be succesful at exporting nutrients that you unintentionally add (via water, food, etc.). A RO/DI filter and a good skimmer will go a long way into helping you succeed. The RO/DI will stem the import of nutrients, and the skimmer will help remove excessive nutrients (in the form of dissolved organics as well as algae .... tests of skimmate confirm it is as much a microalgae filter as anything else). A refugium with macro can help as well. Again, none of these are complete solutions by themselves and it's best to attack the nutrient problem on all fronts.
Hope that helps.
beaslbob":17fv9vcw said:The best way is to get something other than the cyano consuming the phosphates. Add or add more macros algae (in a refug) and the cyano will eventually go away. Regardless of the phosphates in the input water, the substrait, how often the tank is cleaned, the amount of livstock, what or how much the livestock is fed.
I strongly disagree and IMO this is just bad advice for a number of reasons...
Len":17fv9vcw said:Again, none of these are complete solutions by themselves and it's best to attack the nutrient problem on all fronts.
I completely agree.
Many people will probley disagree with this, but 5 months into my new salt tank, I had more red slime then I could deal with, and nothing was helping. Finally, the owner of a LFS, (fish and friends in Brooklyn Park) told me to get some ERYTHROMYCIN tablets. I have a 75 gallon tank. I crushed up 3 tablets, turned off my skimmer, and dumped it in. (I have plenty of inverts, coral, live rock and fish) Almost instantly, the red slime started to dissapear! The next day, I added 3 more. It has been almost a year, and I have never had a reoccurance of red slime. None of my inhabatents were harmed in any way. I would not hessitate to do this again, and always have some on hand. The skimmer will go nuts for a few days after you turn it back on, so watch it.
I had red algae blooms running rampant, so the first thing i did was raise my lights a foot higher, and replace a couple of my 10000k fluoros with blue spectrum ones. the ratio is now 2/3 blues:1/3 10000kwhite. The algae cleared up within a week or so. (By the way, I have a DSB av. 5", 4600L/hr int. pump, a cheap skimmer, 25kg LR, 5 fish and a couple of inverts, 6-7 coral frags (modest bioload). I do feed well (according to Ron Shimeks methods), and things seem ok, except for the detritus sitting on the sand)). Best of luck to you.
The use of antibiotics to control nuisance algae, while it can be an effective quick-fix, should not be necessary. It's really just treating the symptom - not the underlying problem (which IMO is of greater concern).
IMO when you add any medication to a stocked reef you run the risk of possible negative side effects. Further, according to some experts, if antibiotics are used repeatedly to treat the appearance of cyano, the problem algaes can become more and more resistence to the antibiotic making it a less and less effective treatment over time.
Excessive or persistent appearance of red slime algae is a sign of poor water quality and/or poor circulation. If you solve the real problems behind it, the algae will vanish in time.
IMO when you add any medication to a stocked reef you run the risk of possible negative side effects. Further, according to some experts, if antibiotics are used repeatedly to treat the appearance of cyano, the problem algaes can become more and more resistence to the antibiotic making it a less and less effective treatment over time.
Excessive or persistent appearance of red slime algae is a sign of poor water quality and/or poor circulation. If you solve the real problems behind it, the algae will vanish in time.
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