Chemistry help

[smartin]

In trying to figure out why my Xenia is not pulsing I stumbled across some information that suggested it could be an imbalance of the chemicals in my tank. After doing a barage of tests this is what i came up with.

Measured in the evening
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
SG 1.023
Calcium >520
KH 9 dKH

My tank specs are
Running for a little over 2 months
10G
40W PC 50/50
turning the water 460 GPH with 1 HOB and 1 Powerhead

Inhabitants
1 Neon Goby (he has only been in the tank 2 days now)
Various mushrooms
various zoos
sarcophyton
star polyps
clean up crew primarily hermits


1) I am a little worried about the PH being 7.8 (should I be). I did a 40% water change and that brought the PH up to 8.0. but I am affraid by my next weekly water change it will be even lower since it was originally closer to 8.3 - 8.4.

2) I am also wondering about my calcium it was less than 500 about 1 month ago now it is up over 520 is this something to worry about?

3) I was talking to the LFS about my parameters and they suggested a buffer to get my KH back up but I thought 9 was fine, they suggested closer to 12. I wanted to check here before I started buying chemicals to poor in the tank.

So what does everyone think. I am a complete newb at this and everything I have been reading about PH, KH calcium and so one gets my head spinning. The scary thing is my best friend is a chemical engineer and he can't seem to explain it so I can understand and he is just learning about fish tanks so he doesn't know how to answer my fishtank specific questions.

Thanks for your help
SM

 

[Anonymous]

:welcome:

What test kits are you using? How long has the tank been set up.

The pH seems a little low, but if everything else is doing fine I wouldn't worry. Your animals are a better indicator of water quality then test kits often are.

Your ca seems a little high, but it should come down on its own, and your alk is fine.

Stop adding anything to your tank. It is easy to get caught up in the test kit numbers game, but often this leads to fluctuations in water quality, and stability is key.

Xenia can be seriously fickle, so if that is the only thing tanking, I would worry too much.

 

[smartin]

Thanks for the reply,

I am using aquarium pharm. test kits. The tank has been setup for 2 months although the rock sand and water was taken out of a fish tank at the LFS and brought straight to my house and setup so it is hard to say, I never saw any type of cycle either ammonia never left 0 nor did nitrites.

As far as leaving things alone I totally agree just got a little freaked out about my numbers and I wasnt even sure if there was anything to worry about.

The calcium has been steadily rising not falling at all is that anything to worry about?

About the Xenia it actually looks fine and is spreading it is just not pulsing like it was at the LFS so I was just trying to fix that. The more I read about them the more I realize if they want to they will and if they don't then they won't It seems some people get them to pulse again by fixing problems in their tank others by removing them from a high current area. Mine are in a medium current area which was recently downgraded to a low current are due to a powerhead failure which occured last night. Maybe they will be pulsing when I get home who knows.

I will follow your advice and just let things be. I am guessing after 2 months this tank still has not found its equalibrium. Is there anything else I should be testing or watching for?

Thanks again for the advice
SM

 

[Anonymous]

are you dosing calcium at all? b-ionic 2 part?

Salinity try and get to .025 as a side note

ph will adjust if you are doing water changes properly-circulation of changeout water for 24 hrs-how are you doing your water changes?

the alk-ph-calc chemistry is tough, and takes a while to understand...I myself am finally getting a grasp of it now that I know what to look for and adjust for. Not well enough to explain it to you, but once you test for it and KEEP GOOD RECORDS of your tests, it will come.

Advice from most LFS should be taken with a grain of salt as they have product they have to move. Best bet, as I have learned, is to come to boards like this first and get some opinions. Good luck, there are others on this board who know almost everything you could want to know, so ask q's

 

[ChrisRD]

I don't see anything alarming in your numbers. If you're supplementing Ca somehow as mentioned, you could drop the doseage and let it fall on its own. I would also check with another test kit (I like Salifert kits) or bring a water sample to your LFS and have them check it. Many Ca kits are notorious for not being all that accurate...

Your dKH is fine IMO. Natural seawater is generally around 7, and most of us like to keep our tanks a bit higher, so 9 is about perfect IMO.

As for the pH thing - do you have good surface agitation in the tank? Does the tank have a tight cover on it? If you have an air pump handy, take out a cup/bowl/whatever of water and test the pH. Then aerate it for a few hours and test pH again. If the pH goes up, your tank pH may be depressed a bit from poor gas exchange. That can be resolved by increasing surface agitation/circulation and/or improving circulation through the cover (if you have one).

 

[smartin]

I am acutally not dosing calcium at all that is why I was surprised and worried it was rising. I was dosing iodide per recomendations from LFS but have since stopped doing that. I take my LFS a little more seriously because he is a longtime friend but I notice his advice does not always jive with what I read here and on other forums so I decided that I will research all advice given before I follow it.

As far as water changes I do a 20 - 30% weekly change (I have been religious about this that is why I was worried about the PH) and according to some advice I received on one of the boards I should not really need to dose anything, everything I need should come from the water changes. That is why I stopped the iodide dosing. I actually dosed my freshwater tank with because I had some shrimp that were not molting and it worried me. Beleive it or not a day or so after I started to dose it my shrimp shed. May have been a coincidence, who knows.

I do have plenty of surface agitation, at least I think I do. I have a penguing biowheel 330 HOB that really seems to stir up the surface. I pulled the bio wheels off and only put in the carbon cartridges on ocassion. I plan on using it as a refuge once I can get my hands on some cured LR. I had a glass top on the aquarium to reduce evaporation but after reading that it may reduce my PH I removed it two days ago. That did not seem to help but it has only been 1 day when I tested my ph again. I like the airstone in a glass of water idea to see if CO2 is causing my problems. I will try that tonight.

ctgretzky99 - I was just rereading your post about circulating the water for 24hours before the water change. I do not do this. I have the water in a large water jug I usually just shake the heck out of it for 15 minutes or until my arms get to tired. This could definetly be my problem. Unfortunetly the hole on my jug is to small for my powerhead so I guess off the the store to get another water bucket. Do I need to cover this bucket or anything like that while it is circulating?

Thanks again for all the adivce everyone. Every little bit gets me hooked just that much more. I do really enjoy this hobby.

 

[Juck]

I imagine that a slightly low PH might be responsible for a slightly elevated Ca level,, though maybe it's the large water changes. I don't think 520 is anything to worry about though,,, wish I could get mine up there. I like the Salifert Ca test too.

I think you're doing a pretty good job,,,,taking things slow and asking for help when you need it. Sound like you've spent more on test kits than you did on the tank!

 

[smartin]

Juck, it is funny you should mention that about the test kits. I had a nice test kit that was labled freshwater master that I use for, yeah you guessed it, my freshwater tanks. So when I first setup the SW tank I tested it with that kit to see if I really needed a different test kit for SW. Well as soon as I started to test the ammonia it got all coagulated so I assumed that was a good sign there was a difference in the kits so off to the store I went. I purchased the SW version of the kit and came home happy until I tested the ammonia and what do you know it coagulated as well. So I compared the bottles from the two tests and they contain the exact same chemicals. so I will mark that as lesson learned but at least I errored on the side of caution. One thing I have found though is that my saltwater calcium test will not work with my freshwater tank (bummer).

As far as salifert goes, after I purchased my kits I noticed that most people recommended salifert but I just figured it was like my above experiance and they were all the same chemicals just different brand names. I think I will take my water to the LFS and get it tested to see how my numbers compare to theirs and find out which kits they use. If they are off that much I may try the salifert.

Thanks again
SM

 

[ChrisRD]

Out of curiosity, what are you using for source water for evap top-off and mixing up new saltwater (ie. tap, RO, etc.)?

Also, if you have a small air pump sitting around, another option for mixing/aerating new saltwater would be to just drop an open air line in your existing mixing jug (no air stone) and let it bubble/circulate overnight.

 

[smartin]

I use RO water for my topoff. As for the airline idea that is perfect now I don't have to add another bucket to my water change routine, thank god since i am already up to 7 buckets.

 

[Anonymous]

smartin
It is extremely critical that you circulate and let your salt water mix run like this for 24 hrs.

You will need to make a small investment for this to be done properly.

5 gal bucket (or larger)
small powerhead-get a cheap one
optional is airstone
extra heater-again a cheap smaller one

You will be shocked on how well the water stabilizes this way. My source water is 7.1 ph and after curing the water this way, ph ends up being 8.2

As I have learned, though I couldnt give you the technical aspect or specifics, is that it has to do with co2/o2 equlibrium. My alkalinity used to be very high, my ph low and after some brilliant responses from some people on the boards, came to find out it is because of what you do now, and what I used to in the past...mix up my water for a short time, then just add it....

Another guidline...add salt to water, not the other way around as well.

Hope this helps!

 

[smartin]

I think removing the glass top from the tank has helped out quite a bit. The water tested at 8.3 lastnight and that is really the only thing that has changed in the last few day.

I really appreciate the tip on circulating the water. Just to be extra sure I will go with the idea of the bucket, power head and heater. I already have the powerhead and heater so adding another bucket to my routine will not be that big of a deal.

 

[smartin]

Here is a picture of the tank the day after I set it up I think it was Feb 22 2005. Notice the spray painted aluminum foil background. How bad of an idea was that. I thought it would give it a cool texture. The second is the tank today. Notice the now painted back. much better.

 

[smartin]

Ok I am revisiting My high Calcium again. I just retested. My first post was how my tank tested on April 20th. This is what they are now.

PH 8.4
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
SG 1.023
Calcium 600
KH 8

As you can see the calcium continues to rise. I know everyone said not to worry about it but everyone seemed to think it would start to fall. At what point do I need to start worrying about this? also KH has droped a little. Should that be expected with the elevated calcium?

Thanks again,
SM

 

[Anonymous]

What salt mix are you using?
Some mixes are notoriously low (instant ocean...i use this and I have to dose calcium) and some are really high (I think Oceanic if im not mistaken...someone can correct me)
You also do not have things that are using up much calcium, so it may take a while for it to drop naturally.
Post what salt you are using so we can find out content of calcium in it.
You arent way out of line yet, and I believe the dkh is still fine. Sea water is around 7.
You also should be checking alkalinity! Get an alk test. All 3 are related: alk, calc and ph. Get all 3 numbers. This will give a good chain of events.
It is also great you are keeping your records, this will help with your future...

 

[ChrisRD]

Have you tried a new test kit or had the water tested at the LFS? I'm a bit suspicious that your Ca levels are so high yet the tank showed little to no coralline growth after two months.

 

[smartin]

I have not had a chance to I will try to do that tonight. As far as what type of salt I use, I am acutally not sure I buy all my water from the LFS so it is premixed. I will ask them while I am up there tonight. I am also confued by the little to no coraline growth. I thought I had a lot of coraline growth, I think it is just hard to see in that picture. The coraline is on the rocks on the left and on the right. I think my lights are more of the problem That is an incadescent hood. So I purchased 2 20 what PC screw in type bulbs so the ends of the tank get all the light and the center is lacking. I found a 48W VHO on Ebay that I plan to buy in the next few weeks if this 29G falls through. I have been offered a 29G tank and I do not want to keep pumping money into this 10G if it is just going to become a fuge in the next few weeks so once I find out for sure about the 29 I will be buying new lighting either for a 29 or a 10. I will post my numbers from the LFS once Iget them.

Thanks again

 

[ChrisRD]

Yeah I did see some coralline on the rocks but it doesn't look like there's much on the back glass. Sometimes it takes a few months to get coralline well established so that doesn't necessarily mean anything - just a hunch.

Have you ever tested the Ca levels in the premixed saltwater you're using? IMO the odds are much higher that you're having a test kit problem and that nothing is actually wrong because the Ca levels in that water would have to be WAY high to account for your test numbers. Still, it might be worth a check just to rule that out.

 

[smartin]

You are right about the Coraline on the back glass it just recently like in the last week started to show on the back glass and the Filter. Actually once it showed up on the filter it started growing rapidly. Now one thing I noticed about my coraline is that it has white spots on it. like if it were to grow in a circle the center would have a white dot. Is this normal or is it growing and then dieing?

As I was thinking about where the Calcium could be coming from and thought well the only 2 things I add to the water now are RO and the premixed salt and the salt water is the only thing that should have calcium in it. I will test the salt when I get home and ask the LFS to test my calcium as well.

 

[ChrisRD]

I wouldn't worry about your coralline - it comes in various colors. Pinks, purples and white are some of the most common. Also, lighting seems to have some effect on which ones proliferate. IME when doing water changes if some colored corallines get exposed to air while the water line is low they can turn white, but they seem to recover quickly and it's nothing to worry about IMO.