Light in my reef

[chumi]

i have a 20g tank and everythign was perfect with my 55W pc (rapidgrow) 50/50 white/actinic, after a problem with temperature fix with a new chiller i'm thinckin of upgrading my light, what would be a good wattage for it.
i'd apreciate any help in hte rules for picking hte right amount of light for my reef

thanks


chumi
venezuela

 

[Juck]

What kind of corals/anemones do you want to keep long term?


If SPS/Clams/anemones, then I'd go for a Halide solution,,, perhaps a 250w and keep your 55w for actinics.

If you're happy with soft corals, zoa's etc,,, then stick with Power Compacts,,, though I think another 55w wouldn't hurt.

How are things in Venzuela? Are there a lot of reefers? I have some very distant relatives in Cumaná ,,, I love it there.


Welcome to RDO

 

[chumi]

well thanks for your answer, i´d like to have a mix of both sps and soft coral, but that´s on the long term, as i told you i lost all my coral because of temperature, things seem to be normal now, my specs are perfect but for calcium, i think my haggen test is over it´s due date cause i can´t never get a reading, i´ll ask a friend to make the test for me, id ike to knoe when you suggest another 55W you mean, one of them only actinic and one just daylight??, in the forum i´ve read of people havin 3 65Wpc for a 20G waht do you think of that, and do you know the helios bulbs???, well that´s all for the reef, as from venezuela i live in maracaibo that is the oposite side of the country than cumana, but yes there are some serious reefers here, even though our political and economicl situation makes the hobby very expensive, to give you an example a large colt coral can be as much as 600000 bolivares that is 150% the minimun salary given by the goverment,
anytime you want i can send you some pics of some friends reef

again thanks for your answers

jesus miguel
maracaibo-venezuela

 

[ChrisRD]

Hi Chumi and :welcome:

I agree with Juck that adding another 55 watt PC will allow you to keep a variety of stuff in your 20 gallon tank. Personally I would prefer 1 white and 1 actinic lamp vs. just adding another 50/50 but either setup will work fine. As to running 3 X 65 watt PCs over a 20 gallon - I think it would be great as long as you can keep water temps under control. Personally, I'd prefer a single 150 watt DE halide setup if I was looking for strong lighting over a tank that size. JMO...

 

[cjsrch]

upgrade to VHO keep what ever you want in that tank, goin MH will warm your tank alot. a chiller would be on all the time.

 

[Anonymous]

cjsrch, I got a 150w de mh with 2x18w pc's over a 10gal. It's running a cool 76. So don't say it will warm up his tank alot.

Chumi, I agree with Juck & Chris. In the long run your gonna want to go to halides anyway, might as well bite the bullet and get them now. You can "fix" heat issues with a fan of some sort, so don't let /\ scare you off.

 

[ChrisRD]

upgrade to VHO keep what ever you want in that tank, goin MH will warm your tank alot. a chiller would be on all the time.

Just to clarify for any newcomers reading this thread...

Many people (myself included) run tanks lit with halides and have never used a chiller. IMO, it's a common misconception among beginners that halides produce more heat than fluorescents. Like many things in reefkeeping - it's not quite that simple.

It is true that halides produce greater localized temps around the lamps because all their heat/light is being emitted from a small, concentrated area (about the size of a grape). Fluorescents are generating heat more evenly over a larger surface area (the outer surface of a much larger lamp). This doesn't mean they are generating less heat overall - it's just more diffused (thus lower lamp surface temps).

The fact is, the heat generated by a reef lighting system is an inverse function of its effciency - ie., the more efficent the lighting system, the more energy is being converted to light and less wasted as heat. MH lamps produce more light for the power they consume than VHOs, so in actually, for the light being produced, VHO lamps generate more heat. If you don't believe that, look-up the rated lamp efficiences for various VHO and MH lamps on commercial lighting sites.

Also, the overall efficiency of a lighting system goes beyond just how well the lamps work. The point-source-like nature of MH offers some advantages in our application (besides the cool glitter lines! :wink: ). It allows for very efficient reflector design, and the ability to focus light down on our corals. This provides greater irradiance levels on the photosynthetic animals, and greater penetration into the lower portions of our aquariums. This potentially allows you to use less wattage with the halide setup and get similar or greater amounts of light to your corals than the comparable fluorescent setup (which means less heat). It also allows for mounting the lamps higher from the water's surface while still getting the majority of light down into the tank (again - resulting in less heating being transferred from the lamps to the water).

Don't get me wrong, I think VHOs are fine for a lot of applications in reefkeeping - that has been proven by the many fantastic tanks that use them. The fact is, however, halide lighting offers some decided advantages, especially for larger tanks, or ones where very high irradiance levels are desireable...

HTH

 

[cjsrch]

... just cause your admin dont make you always right. just to make that clear. admins arnt gods.

florecant are easier to air cool because of there length. point source light causing glitterlines has not been proven to help any thing. its just some guys justification to the cost of mh that just spread really fast.

T5 ho lights are great also . i have not been able to use them yet but all i hear are good things. including that it is most efficiant at highter temps ( vho ismore effeciant at about 75 degrees i think it is.) mh you need to replace way to often.

 

[cjsrch]

oh also. you can drive 440 watts of light using only 280 watts.
somthing i dont fully understand but it uses the AC to store and release electric back to the main. and if your being charged per kilowat hour . that means good savings.

nothing can beat a MH/ VHO combo. mabey thats the way to go

 

[ChrisRD]

... just cause your admin dont make you always right. just to make that clear. admins arnt gods.

I agree... ...fortunately nobody here is trying to argue that.

... florecant are easier to air cool because of there length.

I disagree. I think when you're talking about lighting systems that provide comparable light output, halides are actually easier to air cool for two reasons. For one, you can get similar light levels to VHO while running lower wattage (thus less heat) and two, you can run them higher over the water and still be getting most of the light down in the tank (thus imparting less heat to the water). The bottom line (IMO) is that if you want lots of light, heat management will be an issue regardless of how you're generating the light. IMO/IME halides being much more efficient make it all that much easier to get those intense lighting levels while keeping heat manageable.

point source light causing glitterlines has not been proven to help any thing

Actually, I don't see where anyone was making that argument in this thread, but there are those who believe there may be some biological benefit to glimmer lines. Honestly I have no idea if that's true or even something that could be proved, but I don't think it's an argument that even needs to be made considering some of the other more obvious advantages of halide lighting.

its just some guys justification to the cost of mh that just spread really fast

MHs can be more costly to setup initially, but in the long run, to get similar irradiance levels it will actually cost you more to run the VHO system. Many people that have long term experience with both setups can tell you that. No justifications required - halides became and remain popular for obvious reasons.

T5 ho lights are great also . i have not been able to use them yet but all i hear are good things. including that it is most efficiant at highter temps ( vho ismore effeciant at about 75 degrees i think it is.)

T-5s are far more efficient than VHOs at any normal operating temperatures. Again, don't take my word for it - look at the specifications published by lighting manufacturers (checkout websites for GE, Philips, etc.). They also currently have much better reflectors available, giving them additional advantage.

mh you need to replace way to often.

Again, an inaccurate generalization IMO - it varies widely with the lamp/ballast combination - same as with fluorescents. Some halide lamps (Iwasaki 6500K for example) run for years with little degradation in intensity or spectrum. Many of the popular 10K halide lamps will easily go a year to year and a half without much change. The bluer lamps generally have a shorter useful life - most need to be replaced yearly. The overdriven (on an "HQI" ballast) Radium setups are one of the few combinations that need to be changed out more frequently than that.

OTOH, most experienced aquarists replace high intensity fluorescents yearly at most, and very often sooner. It's not uncommon for them to replace VHOs at 6 to 9 month intervals. IceCap ballasts drive the lamps a bit differently which helps extend lamp life.

nothing can beat a MH/ VHO combo. mabey thats the way to go

On this we agree - I think a MH/VHO is pretty awesome too. Probably why it has been and remains so popular... :wink:

 

[cjsrch]

any ways. i was considering throwing a HID lamp ( mercury or waht ever somthing cheep)

and turinging it on only when i have people over so the tank will have hte "glitter lines that every one loves so much. but i rarly have company so it isnt worth it.

plus i really just wanna have vho so i can rub it in everyones face when i have an awsome tank that i was told cant exist under vho.

 

[SnowManSnow]

I've seen lots of really NICE VHO tanks... seen lots of NICE MH tanks too! I have a small 39G reef with a 250w DH MH pendant that hangs about 6 inches over the open top and have NEVER had a temprature problem. I think my powerheads probably contribute to heat as much as anything.

Personally, I like MH... with augmentation if you have the room for it.

B.

 

[Anonymous]

plus i really just wanna have vho so i can rub it in everyones face when i have an awsome tank that i was told cant exist under vho.

I thought you had a tank already? If not, when is this magic going to happen? 120 something posts and no pics or anything yet of a tank you have? Show us something or quit posting about your great ideas until you actually have something to show.
I do wish you success regardless of the lights, but not so you can rub it in anyone's faces lol. Just so I know there is another tank out there that is keeping precious marine life alive and well.

 

[cjsrch]

last post for this thread ok. i ordered a 150 since i moved. my old 55 had vho. . . tenecor just emailed me saying the tank is uppose to ship today

 

[Anonymous]

cool cj! I'm happy for you and wish you much success! A 150 would be awesome to work with. Im still stuck with a 60 hex until I have my next home built then plan on a 200-300. I can't wait!
Will you post pics and show us the progress? I feel that if more people did this, more could be learned about the hobby and peoples successes/failures.
Good luck, and show us what you can do with a VHO set up.

 

[cjsrch]

still cutting the walls apart gonna make a small fish room .. house is small but danmit i need my reef

 

[chumi]

i was the one who started the questions about lighting, i have a 20G reef, well it's too much to call it reef cause i'm actually restarting my olg one cause i had a temperature problem and lost all my corals, things are getting better now, my chemistry is perfectat last, i have a chiller cause weather in venezuela is very hot, things seems to be better now, but my concern is i use a pc55W50/50 as lighting, and i'm certain i have to replace it cause it's very old, my question is, does the ballast time afect the quality of light???, am I loosing much lighting because of my 3 years old ballast, thanks for your time

jesus miguel
venezuela

 

[cjsrch]

newer ballast have less draw them selfs ( like for 400 wats of light it really used 480 ) but as for light loss i doubt you are lossing anything if its an electronic ballast ( icecap) but if its tar or somthing else you may be lossing a little.

if your worried just replace your ballast as they will most likely be more energy efficiant anyways.

 

[chumi]

actually is an icecap ellectronic ballast, so my keep it for a while and i can use the money to buy an extra pc set in order to have 2 55W pc either 50/50 or 1 actinic and 1 day light

thanks

 

[ChrisRD]

If you already have an IceCap ballast, I'd stick with that as they're good quality, very energy efficient and probably the coolest running you'll find.

On a side note, I was under the impression that when using the 430 or the 660 models you should be running anywhere from two to four lamps. Are you running a single PC lamp on one of those models?