New And Confused..Help

[OakRaid]

Looking for some help guys, I have searched the forum looking for answers, but didn't work out for me. I guess the main issue here is my low PH .. The guy at the Aquarium store just told me to buffer, but most people here keep saying not to do this. Here are my water perm's

"TANK WATER" ..................... "FRESH MIXED WATER"

PH ...... 7.8 .............................. 7.8
KH ...... 8 DKH ............................ 7.7 DKH
Alk ..... 2.84 ............................ 2.74
Ca ..... 500 Or more ................... 420

Results using Salifert test kits, and CALIBRATED PH meter.
The make up water is with Coralife salt (used IO with same PH reading)
These results are after the water has been mixed and sitting in my garage with a power head for one day.
I just purchased these test kits .. and maybe a little old?? the yellow sticker on the top shows Ca = 05-2012 KH/Alk = 06-2011
So anyway .. any ideas why my PH would be so low? The Ca test on the tank did not change color, so I guess my Ca is very high. Should I be worried about that?

Thank You!! and will really appreciate everyones response!!
Dave

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[Anonymous]

You PH is directly related to the amount of O2 you have in the water. Do this: Take a glass of water - take the PH. Add an airstone with a pump and gurgle for ~1 hour. Take another PH test. If your PH rises - you don't have a PH problem, but an oxygen/circulation problem. Post your results here!

 

[IslandCrow]

Actually, I think you misspoke there, wings. PH is directly related to the alkalinity of the water and the amount of CO2 in the water. Wings suggestion of the airstone in the glass of water is a good one. I'd add to that, do this test both inside and outside your house. If the PH remains low inside but is higher outside, you have excessive CO2 inside the house. If you can open a door or window at least an hour or two a day, that should help vent some of the excess CO2. If, on the other hand, the PH is about the same inside and outside, the problem is with gas exchange in your tank. This can be corrected by increasing water movement, pointing a powerhead so that it ripples the surface of the water, or removing any glass or acrylic cover you may have covering your tank.

Now, looking at your water parameters, you could actually add some buffer since your alkalinity is a little low in relation to your calcium. With 500 calcium, I believe a balanced ratio of alkalinity is around 3.5 meq/L. That rise in alkalinity should bring your PH up a little. You don't generally want your alkalinity over 3.5, though, so dose carefully.

One question for you. What time of day is that PH measurement from. If it's taken at night, it isn't horribly bad (though still low). If it's in the middle of the day, it's no doubt even lower at night, so yes, you should be worried. Keep us updated. Low PH usually isn't that hard to correct.

 

[SnowManSnow]

ACTUALLY, you're both wrong!

The reason for the high PH is that the lunar alignment is just a tad off this year.

B

 

[OakRaid]

Thanks for the replies guys .. Appreciate it!!
Ok.. first the PH on the tank 7.9 is towards the end of the light cycle, it drops to 7.8 over night.
I did the air stone thing, took out about a quart of water from the tank and ran a air stone in it for about an hour and a half. Put the probe in it and it did move from 7.9 to 8.0 ... So it did increase but not very much.
I do have a power head agitating the surface, but dosen't make any differance for the tank, other than help remove the surface scum I was getting. No glass on the tank .. there is a light enclosure that sits on the tank, but only covers about half of the depth of the tank, the rest is open.
Could the high Ca be causeing the PH to run low, because of being out of balance with the Alk?? And would it come back up as the Ca goes down?
Maybe a stupid question .. but just learning here

 

[Anonymous]

my tank did this in the early stages too. Like my Ca wasn't readable either. I don't know the reason but in time and with regular dosing my parameters are fine now. So not a stupid question

 

[OakRaid]

Ok...No, more replies? Does everyone agree with MKTPLAYER, that I should just let it ride out, and wait for it to come together by itself?

 

[Anonymous]

how old is the tank?

 

[Anonymous]

btw, that's not what i was recommending. that's just what happened to me.

 

[OakRaid]

Sorry Mktplayer ... I thought you were recommending that I just do the same.
The tank has been running 5 or 6 months.
I have noticed in the archives that a lot of people had the same problem, and always seemed to be a 7.8 - 7.9 PH ... but no one posted what they did, if anything, to correct the problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry Mktplayer ... I thought you were recommending that I just do the same.
The tank has been running 5 or 6 months.
I have noticed in the archives that a lot of people had the same problem, and always seemed to be a 7.8 - 7.9 PH ... but no one posted what they did, if anything, to correct the problem.

I see. I'm new myself, and I didn't mean to sound like I was giving advice. It's what I did, and I too wonder the cause and solution. That's why I thought it wasn't a stupid question.

Your tank has been running longer than mine and it should be pretty stable at that point. I'm confused myself, but I guess I would add buffer until PH rises because it's already pretty low.

 

[OakRaid]

Got an update (for anyone that is following this subject)
I added some Kent buffer last night ... next day the PH is still at 7.9
My Alk went from 2.84 to 3.94 my Ca went from non readable on the Salifert test kit to 470
The PH issue is really confusing me??? With an increase of 1.10 on the Alk I would think it would move a couple points?? I don't think I should add more buffer right?
And just to make sure (even though I have calibrated my PH probe a couple times .. I put it in a glass of my tap water, and it jumped up to 8.4 which is right for the water here.
Sure would appreciate some help here!!
Thanks

 

[ChrisRD]

This article should help:
http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2002/chem.htm

 

[OakRaid]

Thanks Chris .. I have read that artical. And does have some good info, but doesn't really give me an answer to my problem. The reasons and cures given there, don't fit my issue.
Anyone know of any other reef message boards where I would get a bigger response? I know its summer so a lot of people are busy.

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

I read your post at reeffrontier too. I think you're fine just like the last guy said. PH is low but not at an alarming level, although it is close to it. How often do you do water changes? If you do regular water changes and add buffer as needed you should be fine.

How's all the fish and corals? I made the common newbie mistake of overstocking too fast too early. What saved me I think was doing weekly water changes with good salt and testing the water regularly and dosing accordingly.

 

[bigginapk]

It is also best to test your ph at the end of the day for best results ! I have used kent buffer for years and it has always work great for me !! Good luck !!

 

[ChrisRD]

The reasons and cures given there, don't fit my issue.

Have you ruled out elevated indoor CO2 levels? That is covered by the article and may well be the problem. The simplest way to check would be to aerate a sample of tank water near an open window or outdoors to see if the pH rises.

One possible solution to this is to start using some calcium hydroxide (aka kalkwasser or pickling lime) in your evaporation topoff. The addition of the limewater will consume CO2 in the system water and raise pH. It's also a good way to suppliment Ca and alk in the correct ratios.

Adding buffer doesn't make any sense because your alk isn't low. Add buffer to raise alk, not pH.

Also, based on your aeration test, it sounds like at least part of the issue maybe aeration of the system. Do you have a protein skimmer on this tank? Does this setup have a tight fitting canopy?

BTW, I agree that your pH is a bit low, but not alarmingly low...

 

[OakRaid]

Hi Chris ... I was thinking the same thing about maybe a Co2 problem in the tank .. So I experimented and put a couple air stones in the tank and let them run for a day, well it worked in the wrong dirrection .. my PH went from 7.8 to 7.6. I kind of panicked then, and did a 10 gal water change and added a little more buffer to get it back up to 7.8.
it seems to be more of a new water problem than tank.
Like I said earlier .. when I mix new water using a RO/DI system, after adding the salt and mixing for a while the PH in the bucket is 8.0 .. then after runnig a air stone for 24 hours (as everyone recommends) the PH drops to 7.8 .. I am mixing out in the garage with the door cracked so lots of fresh air. I don't really understand this, am using good purified water, would think the salt mix (which I have tried two differant brands) would bring the PH up to where it needs to be??
Your right I can't add more buffer now, I am almost up to 5 now.
Just currious, how high can you take your Alk before it becomes dangerous? I appreciate your imput on this!!

 

[Anonymous]

I wonder... have you always had problems with low PH, or has this been ocurring lately? I wonder because your tank is at 6 months and everything "should" be stable by now.

 

[OakRaid]

I think it has always been this way .. I wasn't really aware of the issue until a hooked up the PH meter. I Also lost a couple fish a few months ago, for an unknown reason. Maybe the PH was runnig even lower at that time? Was using test kit for PH then, and didn't realize it was low.