Noob question(s)

[erikas.boy]

Hello,
Super glad I found this site. I'm sure I'll be asking all sorts of things in the coming months.
So, the 411: I've spent the last year or so reading books from the library and stuff online, learning and planning and replanning my aqaurium. For my 30th this October, my wife's present was the go-ahead to start it (or, to pillage our bank account).
I bought a 65g glass tank, with no overflow (but it was on a decent sale with a stand, and was priced as a 35g, so it was a steal. I know, I know, spend spend spend, but seriously, it was like an omen). Got an eheim classic canister rated up to 65g, and two used powerheads, a hydor koralia 3 850gph and something unlabelled, but with one of those spreader doo-dads on the outflow. Lights are a Coralife 50/50 T8 (hood came with the tank) and a Workhorse 3 55watt daylight PC. I know I need a bit more, but assumed I was okay with this as I cycled. This is one of the questions..... I bought a bucket of gravel and crushed coral off a dude who used to breed corals in Toronto (where I am), but was moving. The bucket needed to be cycled, but had about 60lbs of gravel/coral in it with water. I also bought 60lbs of "live sand", I can't remember the brand. The fish shop, Big Als, had a couple of boxes of uncured fiji for $150 for 40lbs so I bought one, thinking I would just cycle it all, and spend a while waiting. I knew I needed more rock, and found a guy who was getting out of the hobby, and bought a further 70lbs off him. This stuff was a mix of fiji, haiti and vanuatu, and was all cured. Sold it all to me for $180. Lots of good purple on a lot of it. So I dropped everything in the tank, (crushed coral, then sand, then rock) and filled it with RO/DI premix from the shop. I don't have my own filter, but have a friend who's the brewmaster at a brewery not too far away, and they have a massive RO/DI set-up and he's willing to share.

Okay, so first off, yes, I know, Deep Sand Beds and heaps of LR are out of style or whatever, but I really like the way they both happen to look. Lots of rock with caves and crevices for a few fish to hang out in, sand for little dudes to dig around in. So I might not be hip, but I'm happy.

So my questions at the moment:

The first and biggest is just a confirmation that I'm not insane or something. WIth all the rock and sand in it, I assumed I didn't need to put any dead stuff (shrimp, etc) in, to start the cycle. And indeed, after a few days, I took my first readings from the water (using an API test kit I got). The first day, the Ammonia was at 0.75ppm, nitrite was 1.0ppm and nitrate was 80 ppm. The next day ammonia was at 0.25, nitrite was 1.0 and nitrate was 10 ppm. Third day, ammonia was 0, nitrite was 0.25, and nitrate was 0.This past Saturday everything was at zero, as it was today (Monday). I'm going to check again on Wednesday, but is this just a result of putting a heap of cured live rock in? It seems totally contrary to everything I was ready for (weeks of waiting).Ph has been steady at 7.8, so I need to bring it up a bit. I'm going to get another test-kit for corals (calcium, mg, etc) and probably start dosing with kalk, but I'm still shocked that everything has dropped to zero in about 7 days. Any input here?

I found two hermit crabs and a few small things that look like they might be clams on some of the cured live rock. I'm going to post pictures in the hitch-hikers forum (just waiting on a lend of a decent macro lens), but is the existence and ongoing life of the hermit crabs a good sign, or are they that hardy? Also, there is a good bit of "stuff" on the rocks, some algae and what looks like some dead plants or something. The pair of them (We're calling them hide and seek, to help our two year old understand why he can't always see them), spend most of their time crawling around the rocks, apparently eating. Do I need to be adding anything exra for them to eat? I assume there's plenty for them to be getting on with, but I just want to make sure. Also, I assume I need to give them some extra shells, in case they're looking to trade up?

I'm not in a hurry to add livestock, but I'm thinking, if everything stays level, of adding some cleaner shrimp sometime next week. Something that won't eat hide and seek, but will help much some of the excess off the rocks. Sound reasonable?

Lastly, I know i need more light, especially as I would like to add a mushroom coral or two, and some leather, eventually. I'm torn between more PC or some type of MH. I've seen some MH pendant lights, but I would prefer not to have to run a separate circut, as I live on a rented second floor, and the circut box is in the basement. Adding circuts isn't really an option at this point.

For the record: skimmer is forthcoming. There's a mental sale at Big Als coming up, so I'm going to go and see just how good it is. If nothing is super cheap, I'll look to the web, but from what I've seen, shipping to Canada is a bit of an annoyance. I'm also planning on adding a sump, probably custom built to fit my stand (which has some nice cupboards and shelves under it), which will hold my skimmer, in and out for the canister and a heater (second heater will stay in the tank). I'm going to be doing some research on this, but any good links/sites would be much appreciated.

That's it for now. Thanks in advance!

 

[Anonymous]

My $0.02 worth:

First, drop the idea of a canister filter, they are detritus traps. Rather use a floss pad at overflow and replace it often- more than once a week. If you want to get use out of the canister, fill it with activated carbon and turn it into a carbon filter. (It only needs to run some of the time, mine is on a timer for 8 hours a day)

Second, get the biggest and best skimmer your space and budget will allow for- its one place where skimping will cost you in the long run. For a 65 Ga tank, a skimmer rated for a 100Ga tank is good, a 150Ga rating is better....

Third, dont add any organic matter to speed up the cycle, its not necessary. On your cycle, while its possible that you may have completed your cycle in such a short space of time, its highly unlikely- more likely is the first bit of die-off has been absorbed by the bacteria on the pre-cycled rock. Wait a few more weeks and then proceed slowly- adding hardy fish like wrass initially and allowing your system to catch up after each new addition of load.

Fourth, lighting is important, especially if you are considering more than fish only. Get decent T5 or LED fittings, and MH if you want to keep anything more demanding than leathers. There is a lot of good info on this site about lighting, its worth reading up on it.

Good luck and welcome to RDO!

 

[erikas.boy]

Andy,
Thanks for weighing-in.
- Canister filter: I had been recommended by two different people locally to utilize one, using mainly live rock crumbles with a floss pad on the intake side. I've also heard people mention activated carbon. I have it currently set up with about half live rock and half media, with a floss pad on the intake and a pad Ehiem says has something to do with activated carbon (need to read the manual again). So perhaps I'd do better to sub out the media in favour of AC. By the way, isn't a detritus trap sort of the idea of a filter? Both my local guys said to expect to rinse the media/LR at least once a week, if not more. Not trying to be argumentative, I'm just sussing the "whys" of things. I've definitely heard a lot of people saying that canisters can be huge nitrate facories if you don't keep them clean.
- Yeah, I'm going to leave the cycle for a while and see, but if the cured live rock has already balanced the current bioload, what else would cause another spike? Still, despite being incredibly impatient, I'm going slow.
- Lighting: Just to confirm your comment, t5s or LED, *and* MH? I might wait to add the MH until closer to getting more complicated coral. Again, a bit worried about power consumption. Might need to quietly bring in an electrician while the guy downstairs is away.....
- Skimmer, I was at the shop yesterday and was looking at what's available (incidentally, stuff seemd to only be about $10-20 more expensive then most of the online places I've found, with shipping I think I'm at least holding even if not saving money, especialy if it's a good sale.) and I've got my eye on either an aquamedics turboflotor or a red sea berlin X2 (hoping for the second, but it will depend on price).
Thanks again for all the help, and again, I hope I'm not sounding argumentative. I just ask lots of questions....
Chris

 

[Anonymous]

Andy,
Thanks for weighing-in.
- Canister filter: I had been recommended by two different people locally to utilize one, using mainly live rock crumbles with a floss pad on the intake side. I've also heard people mention activated carbon. I have it currently set up with about half live rock and half media, with a floss pad on the intake and a pad Ehiem says has something to do with activated carbon (need to read the manual again). So perhaps I'd do better to sub out the media in favour of AC. By the way, isn't a detritus trap sort of the idea of a filter? Both my local guys said to expect to rinse the media/LR at least once a week, if not more. Not trying to be argumentative, I'm just sussing the "whys" of things. I've definitely heard a lot of people saying that canisters can be huge nitrate facories if you don't keep them clean.

With the live rock and sand bed you are using, you don't need any other biological filter. A canister filter will only serve to collect detrious and gack and that makes nitrate-which is what we try and avoid in any reef system. I'd ditch it. Activated carbon is a good thing to run, though it is not something you have to use 24/7

- Yeah, I'm going to leave the cycle for a while and see, but if the cured live rock has already balanced the current bioload, what else would cause another spike? Still, despite being incredibly impatient, I'm going slow.

The tank is cycling, and you will get spikes as things die off and the various types of bacterial colonies achieve equilibrium. Remember-nothing good happens fast in a reef tank!

- Lighting: Just to confirm your comment, t5s or LED, *and* MH? I might wait to add the MH until closer to getting more complicated coral. Again, a bit worried about power consumption. Might need to quietly bring in an electrician while the guy downstairs is away.....

A good rule of thumb is to buy the best you can and plan for future growth. If you plan on MH, buy it sooner rather than spend $$$ on something that will "make due". On that size tank I'd get a nice MH/VHO output hood and call it good. That way you don't have to blow money at a later date upgrading.

- Skimmer, I was at the shop yesterday and was looking at what's available (incidentally, stuff seemd to only be about $10-20 more expensive then most of the online places I've found, with shipping I think I'm at least holding even if not saving money, especialy if it's a good sale.) and I've got my eye on either an aquamedics turboflotor or a red sea berlin X2 (hoping for the second, but it will depend on price).
Thanks again for all the help, and again, I hope I'm not sounding argumentative. I just ask lots of questions....
Chris

Again, buy the best you can afford from the start rather than double that expense when you realize the lesser units aren't doing the job. Really, while the tank cycles and while the bioload is low you can do without a skimmer. In fact there are those of us that think they are counterproductive during a cycle so that gives you a little breathing room to make the decision.