Newbie questions

[RossMurray]

So I'm in the research and planning stage for my new tank at the moment. I'm currently reading a few recommended books for beginners by John Tullock called "Your First Marine Aquarium" which is quite helpful, but I have a few questions beyond the scope of the books.

1. Tullock covers protein skimmers briefly, and mentions that for the tank used in the example (30 gal), that a simple rear mounted skimmer would suffice. I am planning to have a 20 gal tank, and was originally thinking of making a sump including a skimmer for the tank. Was my idea overkill for the size of tank I've planned? From what I've read, the sump will also help diffuse heat issues in summer and problems with bubbles (if someone could summarize why bubbles are a problem and how sumps fix this that would be awesome :p ), however if a basic rear-mounted skimmer will be all I need, that would change my plans significantly.

2. Tullock also mentions ways of creating the ideal sea water. Methods covered include reverse osmosis systems and adding chlorine and then dechlorinating later. I'm quite keen to store water for easy top-ups, however RO systems are just way over the top atleast for the moment, and I would rather minimize use of additives where possible. Is it at all possible to boil the water before adding the salt, therefor removing the chemicals removed through RO? Or would this do nothing, or even worse, remove good chemicals from the water?

Apologies if I have used the wrong terminology at any point, I'm still getting used to it all. These books have helped a great deal (I also picked up another book simply titled "Corals" by Tullock and another on Seahorses by Frank Indiviglio). Hopefully I will be informed enough to avoid any major problems with my first marine tank .

 

[Anonymous]

So I'm in the research and planning stage for my new tank at the moment. I'm currently reading a few recommended books for beginners by John Tullock called "Your First Marine Aquarium" which is quite helpful, but I have a few questions beyond the scope of the books.

1. Tullock covers protein skimmers briefly, and mentions that for the tank used in the example (30 gal), that a simple rear mounted skimmer would suffice. I am planning to have a 20 gal tank, and was originally thinking of making a sump including a skimmer for the tank. Was my idea overkill for the size of tank I've planned? From what I've read, the sump will also help diffuse heat issues in summer and problems with bubbles (if someone could summarize why bubbles are a problem and how sumps fix this that would be awesome :p ), however if a basic rear-mounted skimmer will be all I need, that would change my plans significantly.

Well, it depends on what you are stocking in the tank. More livestock and fish means more waste produced, which a protein skimmer helps alleviate. There are plenty of nano sized tanks that people maintain without them by doing larger more frequent water changes so it'll just depend on your choice. A sump is a good idea for you just starting out because of the added water volume. More water = a more stable system and I always recommend beginners start out with aslarge a tank as they can afford. Bubbles are an issue because, well they look like crap, obscuring the view in the display tank and can irritate some corals. A sump stops that due to baffles being installed in them. Here's a nice link:

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

2. Tullock also mentions ways of creating the ideal sea water. Methods covered include reverse osmosis systems and adding chlorine and then dechlorinating later. I'm quite keen to store water for easy top-ups, however RO systems are just way over the top atleast for the moment, and I would rather minimize use of additives where possible. Is it at all possible to boil the water before adding the salt, therefor removing the chemicals removed through RO? Or would this do nothing, or even worse, remove good chemicals from the water?

Tullock's book is a bit dated. The best way is to have an RO/DI system to process the freshwater and use a good quality salt mix with it to make your saltwater. The price has come down on these units ($125 gets you a nice one) and the benefits are huge. One, the water is pure. Two, it's always there in case of an emergency and you need to do a huge water change. Tap water is usually unacceptable (even after being treated with declorinator) due to the natural nutrients in it-nitrates, phosphates, etc. These things cause problems in a marine tank, icky uncontrollable green algae being one. Boiling the tap water wouldn't be helpful.

One other alternative, a lot of WalMarts, Meijers, etc have RO/DI machines and you can bring your own containers and buy the purified water. But, take it from me that's a total PITA and you find yourself doing less water changes due to the hassles. In a tank as small as yours, frequent water changes are necessary. The saltwater you make is the basis for the whole system so doing it right means all the difference in terms of results...go with a RO/DI system.

Apologies if I have used the wrong terminology at any point, I'm still getting used to it all. These books have helped a great deal (I also picked up another book simply titled "Corals" by Tullock and another on Seahorses by Frank Indiviglio). Hopefully I will be informed enough to avoid any major problems with my first marine tank .

That's what these forums are for, ask away . If you are interested in seahorses, the care of them is very different than a coral reef tank and you should plan accordingly. A great resource is http://www.seahorse.org/

Other beginner books I'd recommend:

The Reef Aquarium: Vol 1, 2 and Vol. 3 by Julian Sprung and J. Charles Delbeek

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists by Robert M. Fenner

 

[RossMurray]

Very helpful, thanks heaps

I thought a sump would probably be a good idea still. I think ill still plan to have it. Looks like I will have some extra planning time as I have to move house at some point. Grr.

I wasn't aware that Tullocks book was so outdated. I had seen it had a 1990s edition, but I thought the copy I had was a newer one. It definately looked newer. Must just be a reprint.

You have convinced me about the RO/DI system. Tullock made them sound significantly more expensive... I'll happily invest that much money if the tank will benefit that much for it

A few more questions, if i may:

3. In the book, Tullock mentions that with larger tanks, or with Corals that require a lot of water movement, to install multiple pumps to more accurately simulate the ocean tides. However after researching Seahorses, from what I understand they require low/medium water movement as they aren't great at fighting the current. With two pumps, would there be a likelyhood that I would strain them? Am i missing something here? Any advice for number of pumps? Im just worried that I will either a) introduce the seahorse's and swim them to death, or b) choose corals that require significant water flow, and then be unable to provide it to them because of the Seahorse. (I know this is probably an appropriate question for Seahorse.org as you linked, ive also got an account over there too). Is it possible to have both such corals and seahorse's in the same tank, with clever placement of the corals?

Thanks in advance, these forums have been really helpful so far

 

[Anonymous]

3. In the book, Tullock mentions that with larger tanks, or with Corals that require a lot of water movement, to install multiple pumps to more accurately simulate the ocean tides. However after researching Seahorses, from what I understand they require low/medium water movement as they aren't great at fighting the current. With two pumps, would there be a likelyhood that I would strain them? Am i missing something here? Any advice for number of pumps? Im just worried that I will either a) introduce the seahorse's and swim them to death, or b) choose corals that require significant water flow, and then be unable to provide it to them because of the Seahorse. (I know this is probably an appropriate question for Seahorse.org as you linked, ive also got an account over there too). Is it possible to have both such corals and seahorse's in the same tank, with clever placement of the corals?

Thanks in advance, these forums have been really helpful so far

Seahorses are generally not kept with corals for the reasons you outlined. If you have enough flow to make the corals happy the seahorses get bounced around. They don't feed well in higher currents and are prone to getting fungal infections when they get wounded which can be problematic to cure. Also, most corals sting anything that comes into contact with them so that's an issue as well. You can ask this at the other board, but if you do some reading there you'll see that these critters are kept in species only (or with very select tankmates) tanks. A 29 isn't really the best tank either for all but the smaller species of seahorses, they really do better in a taller tank with more 'up and down' swimming space.

 

[RossMurray]

After going through your reply im now reconsidering seahorses. I love the idea of having them in the tank, but if im not going to be able to provide for them in a tank with corals im not sure its worth planning for.

I find it strange that this hasn't come up earlier in my research though. Over at Seahorse.org there are many resources for "seahorse safe" corals. Im beggining to think that this doesn't necessarily mean that their water movement requirements match up with that of the seahorses. I know its something that should be brought up over on that site, but it just seems weird that I see many posts on "these are 'safe' to keep with seahorses, but theres little mention of conflicting water movements.

Thanks for your help

 

[RossMurray]

Just had a thought...

Is it likely that people who have managed to keep corals with seahorses have a much larger tank, and therefor are able to provide areas near the pump suitable for the corals, and areas near rocks and in the middle where the movement isn't so hard? That might not be possible though...

 

[Anonymous]

If you look here you'll see flow and waste discussed in the tankmates thread:

http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?sho ... 7197&st=40

Of course, instead of giving up on the idea you can always plan a species tank around them specifically . It's an excuse to get another tank

 

[Anonymous]

Just had a thought...

Is it likely that people who have managed to keep corals with seahorses have a much larger tank, and therefor are able to provide areas near the pump suitable for the corals, and areas near rocks and in the middle where the movement isn't so hard? That might not be possible though...

Just keep reading over there, most of what you want to do others have done before. Larger tanks don't always work for seahorses due to how they feed .

I tell you to keep researching over there to keep you from trying to reinvent the wheel it's expensive in terms of money, and the heartbreak of lost livestock.

 

[RossMurray]

Yeah, not wanting to do anything hugely original on my first attempt either :p

Ive read a lot of conflicting information on the subject which has confused me a great deal. Ive taken everything ive read with a grain of salt, but doesn't help too much. Ive finally got my account working at seahorse dot org so ive asked around over there.

Ive even read somewhere that Live Rock is not recommended in tanks with seahorses... a quick trip to seahorse dot org shows that almost all of their tanks have significant live rock. I know there is never definate rules when it comes to keeping seahorses or any other fish, but never would i have expected for someone to completely rule out such a staple for a marine tank, and then link to the very page that proves their argument meaningless.

Feeling a bit confused and overwhelmed at the moment, just trying to sort out the good ideas from the bad. Im thinking I may need an extra grain of salt or two :s

 

[Anonymous]

Experienced hobbyists are often the best source for what works, usually from trial and error. These boards are great for that, but as you gain experience you'llbe able to separate good advice from bad. As far as liverock being bad with seahorses, that was advocated in context of keeping Hippocampus zosterae (dwarfs) but mostly people have abandoned that.

 

[livingstone]

Talkingreef had a really neat extended podcast about three years ago on keeping seahorses. I listened to it recently and would recommend you listen to it.
http://www.talkingreef.com/forums/podca ... -89-a.html

 

[livingstone]

Oop. That wasn't actually the one I listened to. I heard one from before this one. I'll bet this one is really good too though.

 

[RossMurray]

Ahh cheers. I'll give that a listen shortly. Beats a slow day at work anytime :p

 

[JustDavidP]

For what it's worth... I recommend higher water flow than was discussed in that podcast. Not as much as you would have in an SPS reef, but more than mentioned in the podcast. The idea is to ensure that it is not laminar flow. A gentle wavemaker flow, that emulates the push and pull of waters over a grass bed will help keep detritus in suspension and will not blow the seahorse(s) around.

Dave