SPS Coral In Our Reef Aquariums

[pauliwalnuts]

I'm still struggling with my ph I've tryeid running the skimmer air intake outside for fresh air and it made no diff I may have to start kalk

Aside from the kalk, try the CO2 scrubber on that same line of the skimmer's intake as well. When you see those numbers rise, it will put a :splitspin on your face Charlie. I bought my unit from BRS(http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/universal-air-filter.html). I also get the media thru them (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/medical-grade-co2-absorbent-low-dust.html). When adding fresh media, you should add about 10ML of RO water to the inside of the holding tank. This water will activate the media. As I said before, I only recommend this to advanced reefers. But, I it seems you fit the criteria. Keep a close eye on your ALK+CAL (since they go hand-in-hand, I only test for the ALK) when you first replace the media (as you may need to raise your dosing method). And also again, when it's about 2 1/2 weeks old (as you may need to lower your dosing method). By monitoring your PH, and some getting use to, you will begin to know when its time to replace the media again.

 

[mshur]

For people who are dosing 3 part, i would recomend soda ash (sodium bicarbonate) for ALK sup. Works great and keep my PH stable between 8.2-8.4

 

[Jbanks]

I second everything mentioned here. Very informative Jonathan. After all, I took the kalkwasser plunge after long debations and looking at what benefits you've had with it in your tank. Thanks buddy.

You got it Bro! Glad it's working out for you!

 

[pauliwalnuts]

Sup Paul.

It's amazing how something as simple as testing your water rather then assume can go over looked. Two times I have had significant sps loss due to not testing, and could have def been caught an prevented.

When I came back from 2 week vacation in Brazil My corals didn't look to hot, but I figured water changes would fix it. Not till I actually test awhile later did I figure out that my cal was low and alk was throught the roof. Since I have been dosing and doing water changes and testing daily. Now that the alk is back in a better range things are stable and corals are coloring up again.

Lesson learned.
TEST YOUR WATER OFTEN.

I think it's now safe to go into another parameter. And the ones just mentioned, ALK+CAL, are just as important as the last one we discussed (PH). You might be saying to yourself, "Why I'm a tackling ALK+CAL at the same time?" Well, most of us already know that they go hand-in-hand. So I say, "why not." Lol

Accepted levels 7-12dkh
Preferred level 9dkh
Now lets get started.

 

[Mattl22]

I run a cal reactor now that it's dialed in it's great but I dread the day I have to refill or clean it because it's a royal pita to get set but once set it's truly a set and forget ! My cal and alk r stable and with the kalk in ato ph is good it took a while to figure out how to combined the cal reactor and kalk in my ato so the 2 gave me the parameters I wanted !
I would go with a doser next time keep it simple with 2 part. Kalk can be dangerous stuff I had big loss due to dosing too much when I forgot to unplug my ato during wc

 

[James983]

My tank is in my basement so ventilation is not ideal. I always battled low PH at night with my old set up, so when I rebuilt a larger tank I decided my best course of action was to have as much water dripping as possible.

Now my tank is by no means quiet, but it is downstairs in my kids playroom (and mine) so noise is really not an issue.

When I plumbed the return lines to my sump I drilled holes in all the return lines and they drip into my sump, thus aerating the water as much as possible. I also run my fuge with reverse lighting from my display. The fuge is loaded with Cheato and I have about 10 Mangroves. It appears to help keep my PH above 8.2 at all times.

So if you can handle the noise I definitly recommend this technique.

 

[charliethetuna88]

Woooow paulie never swen that before .I'm Def getting it .so whats the bad effect does it mess ur alk and cal up

 

[charliethetuna88]

So its basicAlly an air chamber before the skimmer right ? No adjusting anything ?

 

[Chris Jury]

Alkalinity will fluctuate depending on your oxygen levels (up if it's low, and down if it's high). So as Pratt just said, "Keep a vigilant eye on your alkalinity".

Alkalinity isn't related to O2 directly. For example, you can take a sample of sea water and aerate with pure O2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way up, or aerate with pure N2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way down and alkalinity will remain constant (normalized to salinity, to account for evaporation).

Over the course of a day on a reef or in a reef tank the two do tend to be indirectly related. During the day corals and other organisms perform photosynthesis at a higher rate than their respiration, which drives up the dissolved oxygen, and corals also calcify at a high rate, which draws down alkalinity. At night corals and everything else continues respiring, but without photosynthetic O2 production, so oxygen falls, whereas calcification slows down, so alkalinity falls more slowly, or even increases. Hence, dissolved oxygen and alkalinity tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day, but for different reasons. Changing one doesn't directly affect the other whatsoever.

The same is true for O2 and pH. pH is determined by the concentration of dissolved CO2 and alkalinity, neither of which depend directly on dissolved O2. However, since photosynthesis consumes CO2 and produces O2 while respiration does the reverse, CO2 and O2 tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day. At about constant alkalinity pH and O2 therefore tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day as well, though changing one has no direct impact on the other, as above.

I don't think that stability itself for almost any parameter we can measure is actually that important to corals or other organisms. What seems to be much more important is keeping any number of conditions (pH included) within a tolerable range. Fluctuation within that range seems to be pretty well tolerated by most critters. IME, when folks talk about problems resulting from fluctuation in x, y, or z, what they really mean is that parameter x, y, or z got way outside of a tolerable range. It's not the fluctuation that's the problem, it's the unacceptable conditions that are the problem

cj

 

[pauliwalnuts]

Alkalinity isn't related to O2 directly. For example, you can take a sample of sea water and aerate with pure O2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way up, or aerate with pure N2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way down and alkalinity will remain constant (normalized to salinity, to account for evaporation).
During the day corals and other organisms perform photosynthesis at a higher rate than their respiration, which drives up the dissolved oxygen, and corals also calcify at a high rate, which draws down alkalinity.
cj

Wow, great job on breaking it down. I'm not as good as you seem to be at doing that. Thank you very much Chris.
Correctely, disolved oxygen levels don't have a direct affect on the ALK+CAL. But when you rise disolved oxygen in your tank, coral can consume the ALK+CAL at a higher rate.

 

[pauliwalnuts]

So its basicAlly an air chamber before the skimmer right ? No adjusting anything ?

That's right buddy. No adjusting the actual unit. As for your other question, I think Chris just did a good job of answering it for us.

 

[prattreef]

Wow, great job on breaking it down. I'm not as good as you seem to be at doing that. Thank you very much Chris.
The facts remain the same here. Consumption of ALK+CAL are affected if you raise or lower your devolved oxygen levels. So if you do something to change that level (open window, vent your canopy to an outside source, add a CO2 scrubber), keep a good eye on your ALK.

Actually that is not what he said, please re-read.

"Hence, dissolved oxygen and alkalinity tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day, but for different reasons. Changing one doesn't directly affect the other whatsoever."

 

[prattreef]

I think Chris' other and IMO more important point about stability is worthy of discussion. I think hobbyists do get too fixated on ideal numbers and fiddle with their systems too much trying to achieve these ideals. There are ranges of tolerance for all parameters and as long as you fall with these ranges things should be fine.

Perhaps Chris can chime in further, but for temp. at least, I know he postulates that variation within the tolerances is actually a good thing for the animals.
You can read his take on this in the current issue of Reefs
Magazine:
http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/100587-great-temperature-debate-part-iv.html

 

[Awibrandy]

Alkalinity isn't related to O2 directly. For example, you can take a sample of sea water and aerate with pure O2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way up, or aerate with pure N2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way down and alkalinity will remain constant (normalized to salinity, to account for evaporation).

Over the course of a day on a reef or in a reef tank the two do tend to be indirectly related. During the day corals and other organisms perform photosynthesis at a higher rate than their respiration, which drives up the dissolved oxygen, and corals also calcify at a high rate, which draws down alkalinity. At night corals and everything else continues respiring, but without photosynthetic O2 production, so oxygen falls, whereas calcification slows down, so alkalinity falls more slowly, or even increases. Hence, dissolved oxygen and alkalinity tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day, but for different reasons. Changing one doesn't directly affect the other whatsoever.

The same is true for O2 and pH. pH is determined by the concentration of dissolved CO2 and alkalinity, neither of which depend directly on dissolved O2. However, since photosynthesis consumes CO2 and produces O2 while respiration does the reverse, CO2 and O2 tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day. At about constant alkalinity pH and O2 therefore tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day as well, though changing one has no direct impact on the other, as above.

I don't think that stability itself for almost any parameter we can measure is actually that important to corals or other organisms. What seems to be much more important is keeping any number of conditions (pH included) within a tolerable range. Fluctuation within that range seems to be pretty well tolerated by most critters. IME, when folks talk about problems resulting from fluctuation in x, y, or z, what they really mean is that parameter x, y, or z got way outside of a tolerable range. It's not the fluctuation that's the problem, it's the unacceptable conditions that are the problem

cj

Thank you!:dog:

 

[h2o]

Alkalinity isn't related to O2 directly. For example, you can take a sample of sea water and aerate with pure O2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way up, or aerate with pure N2 to drive the dissolved oxygen way down and alkalinity will remain constant (normalized to salinity, to account for evaporation).

Over the course of a day on a reef or in a reef tank the two do tend to be indirectly related. During the day corals and other organisms perform photosynthesis at a higher rate than their respiration, which drives up the dissolved oxygen, and corals also calcify at a high rate, which draws down alkalinity. At night corals and everything else continues respiring, but without photosynthetic O2 production, so oxygen falls, whereas calcification slows down, so alkalinity falls more slowly, or even increases. Hence, dissolved oxygen and alkalinity tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day, but for different reasons. Changing one doesn't directly affect the other whatsoever.

The same is true for O2 and pH. pH is determined by the concentration of dissolved CO2 and alkalinity, neither of which depend directly on dissolved O2. However, since photosynthesis consumes CO2 and produces O2 while respiration does the reverse, CO2 and O2 tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day. At about constant alkalinity pH and O2 therefore tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day as well, though changing one has no direct impact on the other, as above.

I don't think that stability itself for almost any parameter we can measure is actually that important to corals or other organisms. What seems to be much more important is keeping any number of conditions (pH included) within a tolerable range. Fluctuation within that range seems to be pretty well tolerated by most critters. IME, when folks talk about problems resulting from fluctuation in x, y, or z, what they really mean is that parameter x, y, or z got way outside of a tolerable range. It's not the fluctuation that's thei problem, it's the unacceptable conditions that are the problem

cj

U got A+ on your homework Chris

 

[prattreef]

U got A+ on your homework Chris

More like a PhD.

 

[Turbovr3six]

Great write up Chris!

Randy, I read that article yesterday. Thanks for posting up the link!

 

[pauliwalnuts]

Actually that is not what he said, please re-read.

"Hence, dissolved oxygen and alkalinity tend to be anti-correlated over the course of a day, but for different reasons. Changing one doesn't directly affect the other whatsoever."

Woops, thanks Pratt.
I just corrected myself. Lol.

 

[pauliwalnuts]

I run a cal reactor now that it's dialed in it's great but I dread the day I have to refill or clean it because it's a royal pita to get set but once set it's truly a set and forget ! My cal and alk r stable and with the kalk in ato ph is good it took a while to figure out how to combined the cal reactor and kalk in my ato so the 2 gave me the parameters I wanted !
I would go with a doser next time keep it simple with 2 part. Kalk can be dangerous stuff I had big loss due to dosing too much when I forgot to unplug my ato during wc

Matt22, thanks for the info on how you maintain your AKL+CAL.
Never had a calcium reactor, so I can't provide much help with this sort of method. But I know many of you guys do. Hopefully some of you can tell us of your set-up, maintenance, and how you fine tune your reactor.

 

[pauliwalnuts]

For people who are dosing 3 part, i would recomend soda ash (sodium bicarbonate) for ALK sup. Works great and keep my PH stable between 8.2-8.4

Mike, nice to know you're tagging along. Hope all is well with you and your beautiful tank.

I also use a doser (http://reefdosingpumps.com/products/sentry.html) to maintain my ALK+CAL. It's very easy to set-up and make adjustments too. Also, I don't have to worry about over dosing with this sort of method. Some people like to run their units when their lights go off to help with their PH during the night. I dose 24-7. For ALK I've been using the BRS Soda Ash (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...-soda-ash-sodium-carbonate-for-aquariums.html). For calcium, BRS Calcium Chloride (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...lons-bulk-calcium-chloride-for-aquariums.html). The unit is very compact and fits nicely in the stand under the display tank. 2 one gallon jugs, one with the alk and the other with the cal, is what feeds the doser. It drips into the last chamber of my sump where the return pump is then pumping it straight to the display.

The dosing tubes need to be replaced about every 6-8 months. And so far, I go thru just about a gallon alk+cal every 2 1/2 weeks.

Fine tuning the unit is very simple. I test for alk. And if it's not at my desired level, I make adjustments by lowering/raising the dosing rate.

In conjunction with my alk+cal doser, I aslo use a medical food doser (sorry no pics, but I'll try get get some soon) to add kalkwasser top-off mix. BRS Calcium Hydroxide (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...lkwasser-calcium-hydroxide-for-aquariums.html) and RODI water, at 1-2 teaspoons of kalk to 1 gallon of water, is how I mixed my top-off solution. And I use a 32 gallon Brute can to store it.

The dosing cartridge/tubing needs to be replaced once a month. My evaporation rate is almost 2 gallons a day. So, the storage can needs to refilled just about every 2 1/2 weeks.

By looking at my sump's water line and raising/lowering the dose rate, I can control that line by the push of a button on the doser.

Note: A big spike up/down in your alk+cal, can have a negative affect on your coral. So, it's very important to keep those levels constant and as stable as possible (but without driving yourself mad, and making constant adjustments). As long as your levels fall within the accepted range things should be fine. I try to keep mine DKH at 9 (if it's at the middle, it will be easer to correct an ifluctuation that has gone up/down.)