Reef crystal

[xxxAngeloxxx]

Duke

can you show me something that will back up what you just wrote.every refratometer ive ever seen NEVER says for use in table salt only.and every one says to calibrate with distilled water


What you think I'm do not know what I'm talking about ?? Internet reef forums and even refract manufacturing sites will show that in their data sheets or you can call them on the phone or e-mail them and ask. It is std practice for std refract, like most used in this hobby, where it is calibrated from the factory using NaCl. A refract based on pure water, NaCl water, KCl water, sugar, etc., DO NOT refract the light the same. Therefore, a refract has to bet set to the solution you are testing. Most refracts are used for saline or Brix solutions, which seawater is not. You obviously have done little research on refracts. Here is a list of them

Digital Hand-held "Pocket" Refractometers Scales
http://www.atago.net/english/images/catalog/hand-held.pdf

Refractive index

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index




I spent allot of time for Randy Holmes-Farley to help him on this article. Feel free to go ask him, he is on RC.

Refractometers and Salinity Measurement

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php



one says to calibrate with distilled water

But the scale on the refracts are NOT the same. The scale for NaCl is not the same for seawater any more than the scale is the same for sugar. RO/DI is just used more or less to zero it out and put it back on track if its off.



mgb75

That will work better than RO/DI but is still not seawater but close enough. It is best to cal them with "mock" seawater, which PinPoint is.



marrone

I use a Refractormeter and when I calibrate my refractormeter I find that the I get the same results using either calibration solution or RO/DI water.

Did you read this part ?

Chinese refracts have been shown to be off from 0 -5 ppt when calibrated in R/DI water.

Allot of these cheap refract have very poor quality control and two that are exactly the same, where one can be right on in RO/DI water vs seawater and the other can be off 5 ppt.


xxx

So boomer should I just stay with the hydrometer or go with a refractometer instead?

It is safer to go with a refract and calibrate it properly.

Thanks boomer for answering my question

 

[Boomer]

Note 1 : Only a ture Seawater refract can be cal in RO/DI water and give correct results. As far as hand-held, like we us, there are only two made on this planet, ATAGO and I'm the guy that got them to make it and VEE-GEE. like on the FilterGuys website site, which is the same as that sold on Foster & Smith under their name Vital Sine.

Note 2 : When you cal a std non-seawater, NaCl refract in RO/DI water, if it is good quality it will alway read 1.5 ppt to low. So, doing this you need to make your salt mix 36.5 ppt to equal 35 ppt seawater.


You bet XXX



Monroe

Who's refract do you have ?

 

[duke62]

i just read the reefkeeping article and it clearly says the refractometer we use is made for seawater.the refractometer that isnt made for natural seawater can be off .i didnnt read in the article about the refracts that hobbyists use are designed for table salt.maybe i missed it can you please point it out to me in the reefkeeping article.i dont know you from adam so how would if you know what your talking about or not.its a discussion not a debate.

 

[Boomer]

i just read the reefkeeping article and it clearly says the refractometer we use is made for seawater.the refractometer that isnt made for natural seawater can be off .i didnnt read in the article about the refracts that hobbyists use are designed for table salt.maybe i missed it can you please point it out to me in the reefkeeping article.i dont know you from adam so how would if you know what your talking about or not.its a discussion not a debate.

Yah sure, you seem to have reading issues.

Refractometers can lead to incorrect readings in additional ways and, again, these issues abound for reef aquarists. One is that many refractometers are intended to measure sodium chloride solutions, not seawater. These are often called salt or brine refractometers. Despite the scale reading in ppt (?) or specific gravity, they are not intended to be used for seawater. Unfortunately, many refractometers used by aquarists fall into this category. In fact, very few refractometers used by hobbyists are true seawater refractometers.


Table salt is NaCl, sodium chloride.

If selecting a refractometer that reads in ppt or specific gravity, it is important to be sure that it is either a true seawater refractometer, or a salt (brine) refractometer, and not a clinical refractometer.

Why do you think he has this ^^ followed by this below ?

This 3.65 weight percent sodium chloride solution can be made by dissolving 3.65 grams of sodium chloride in 96.35 grams (mL) of purified freshwater. This recipe can be scaled to any appropriate size if suitable instruments are available (36.5 grams in 963.5 grams (mL) of water, 0.365 grams in 9.635 g (mL) of water, etc.).

Because 3.65 grams of NaCl = 3.50 grams of full dehydrated sea salt

Assuming that a refractometer is made correctly for the fluid it is intended to measure

And you are assuming it is. There are only 2 handheld refracts made for Seawater, the ATAGO seawater ( $250) and the Vee-gee seawater (~$100). If you do not have one of those it is a NaCl.

Now, you go show me where it says it clearly says the refractometer we use is made for seawater. Show me a quote from that article not some words you dreamed up where it says that. Can't can you.

Saltwater refracts are NaCl refracts not seawater and often use the same scale 'type" i.e, 35 ppt NaCl Salinity, which is not 35 ppt Seawater Salinity.

It is not a debate or a discussion it is you not getting your facts straight with out looking.

 

[duke62]

your a nasty person WOW.If someone is questioning you he is not putting you down im asking questions.Heman of MR your not brother so please relax.i was not DEBATING i was asking a question.you really need to relax yourself . sorry if you thought i as questioning your intellect maybe your trying to compensate for something else.nice talking to you einstein.you can read in my last post i might have missed it i did read it fast it wasnt a put down i wasnt suggesting you were BSing so no need for the rude remarks

 

[CHEMCHEF]

:fight2::fight2:

 

[xxxAngeloxxx]

Come on guys don't start off 2012 on the wrong foot. i made this thread to ask a question on my salt level on my tank that's all. There isn't no need for arguing about the refractometer :screama:

 

[duke62]

you were asking questions just like i was and no one was putting you down.just weird when someone asks a question to someone and they jump down your throat like your insulting them.I dont know about the way refractometers work and i was merely asking for a article and he just attacks.i read through 100 paragraphs and i missed it and he attacks my reading.i write 2 sentences explaining i wasnt debating and he still attacks.maybe his reading skills should be looked at.anyway im done.i have some good articles to look at for refractometers now.thanks boomer

 

[mbg75]

Duke, Boomer gave u some Chuck Norris treatment.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[marrone]

We did a group buy a number of years ago and purchased a large amount of Refractormeters from China. As I've stated, mine gives me the same reading whether I used RO/DI or the calibration solutions.

Now it's possible we got good ones or just that mine works.

 

[marrone]

Boomer probably upset the that the season over for the Vikings. :tongue:

 

[Boomer]

Duke



can you show me something that will back up what you just wrote.every refratometer ive ever seen NEVER says for use in table salt only.and every one says to calibrate with distilled water

I do not see this as a question but a smart-ass remark same for your other post. Maybe I took it wrong but that is how it read to me. So, Sorry.

 

[duke62]

it wasnt a smart arse remark.i like to see articles and other facts before i use this.anyone can write anything on here with no real facts.if i wrote i read an article and they said sps can be kept in a goldfish bowl with no heat or flow wouldnt you want to see who wrote it.the articles you posted helped and im sure whoever read them learned something new.i skimmed quick before looking for that one sentence and i missed it.when i have the time i will read it to a tee

 

[marrone]

Boomer, try getting my name right, this is the second time you got it wrong. I guess a lot of people are having trouble reading today.:biggrin:

 

[Boomer]

OK but I do not run this MR chem forum because I do not know what I'm talking about on seawater chem. I have been at it for decades and why I was asked to come here.

a goldfish bowl with no heat or flow wouldnt you want to see who wrote it

No, because that is and sorry ahead of time, a silly analogy.

Ok Monroe

 

[duke62]

ok and if i knew who you were i wouldnt of questioned your first post.not everyone knows who everbody is on here.for all i knew you could have been snookie and just set up your first guidette reef tank

 

[Boomer]

Marrone

I will be MIA for a few days so keep and eye on things.

 

[Boomer]

Ok we are all good

Duke
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/chemistry/

And yes, ahead of time, must that know me know I' AM rather short tempered

 

[xxxAngeloxxx]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm (SPECHLESS RIGHT NOW)

 

[duke62]

glad we can settle things.now i know who you are and hope i can ask you questions without being yelled at see if mods would have closed this i would have went to bed mad LOL