Phosphate Mystery

[cmuro100]

I am in need of some serious help with a phosphate issue i have been having for months. It started in the summer when bubble algae started appear and got worse and worse. Started manual removal and cutting back feedings and seemed to slow it but will not go away but now i am getting dino's here and there and other fuzzy algae.

My thought was the dry rock (marco from premium aquatics) was leaching phosphates but i started this tank in the spring of 2010 and no problems until a year later. The whole tank is not dry rock maybe 1/3 the rest was live from my old tank. Is it possible it took a while for it to start leaching and take this long?

I have tried the lanthaum route (still currently) and seems to help but the next day it is right back. I do not have good luck measuring phosphates even with my Hanna meter but i have measured anywhere from 0 to .48 which i know is not right at times.

I was running GFO but have ceased as it was a waste because the levels are so high and i can't change it everyday, probably would need to be done more often anyway.

If it isn't rock what could possibly drive phosphates so high for such a long time?

Tank - Mixed Reef
57G Illuminata
20G sump w/ fuge (macro doesn't grow well)
Octopus NWB150 with bubbleblaster 2000
Waterblaster 5000 for return
MP40 and MP10 for circulation
Biopellets in SMR1
Dose BRS 2 Part

Fish
mandarin
2 clowns
1 firefish
coral beauty
fox face lo
3 blue chromis

Parameters
Ph - 8.2-8.4 (use soda lime for skimmer intake)
Nitrates - 0
Phosphates - 0-.48 or who knows...my problem
Alk - 7.4
Calc - 430
Mag - 1400

 

[rkaragozler]

how are you dosing Lanthanum Chloride

 

[qy7400]

Whats your water source?

GFO should be good for a few weeks at a time, I'd also stick to one method of removal; GFO, lanthanum or the pellets.

 

[cmuro100]

probably not the right way.

i am using at the moment the Aqua Vision Aquatics Phosphate Solution which is just a dilluted solution. i wanted to start slow so i dosed maybe 6-8 drops a day than started a day with 30 drops and than measured next day and tried to drop by the phosphate level i measured. i tried this and since the phosphate reading is so inaccurate i have been adding 20-30 drops a day depending on how the tank looks that day (got worse didn't change or got better). I am thinking i have to dose steady throughout the day but i fear with that the levels could get too low and not notice.

What i don't understand is where the phosphates are coming from and why for such a long time and not getting better.

Water source is RODI 6 stage.

 

[ming]

You should be dosing the Lanthanum Chloride into a 10 micron filter sock, or something to catch the binded phosphates so you can remove it from the tank. Otherwise they just get binded and some might get skimmed out, others fall to the bottom (long term effects aren't well known, possibly re-releasing the phosphates later on)
You can also test the TDS coming from your RODI.
Also, I am dosing Lanthanum Chloride continuously via a doser into the overflow's filter sock. Phosphate is constantly being added to the tank via fish food and I have a ton of fish being fed throughout the day with an autofeeder, and then frozen/dry seaweed when I get home.
Keep in mind, this is only to remove phosphates. Nitrates will still be there.

 

[cmuro100]

I drip it into my filter sock but it isn't a 10 micron sock, i think it is a 100 micron. I test my TDS and it is always 0 and have changed membranes, cartridges and resins. For nitrates i use the biopellets and i understand they don't control phosphates when they are high.

How much are you dosing a day and how big is your tank?

I just can't believe that the rocks didn't start leaching until a year later and are leaching this long (6 months). I rinse my food and have cut back on feeding once every other day. Where else could the phosphates be coming from?

 

[Widdy]

Which Hanna are you using? The cuvettes must be really clean; no fingerprints or waterstains with RO water and dried with a non abrasive cloth ie. microfiber. Pour the reagent like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e_EOWAkLTc

Let's get a more stable/accurate reading of your PO4 first.

 

[cmuro100]

i clean the cuvettes with a paper towel to get rid of finger prints and marks and hold from the top before putting it in, i don't have a microfiber cloth (don't remember it coming with one). I do add the reagent as shown in the video.

 

[Widdy]

Can't think of what else might cause the variation, unless it's a defective colorimeter. It has a +/- .04ppm variance, but not .40.

 

[cmuro100]

Yeah, i don't no if it is defective or just not accurate because of the algae taking it in.

My biggest concern is why is this lasting so long, the rocks are almost 2 years old now and i didn't think rocks leached for 6+ months. I do weekly 10g water changes i try to keep everything clean but it just doesn't seem to be getting better and is starting to take a toll on me.

 

[Widdy]

Post #11
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=112

 

[cmuro100]

Which thread? Link brings up the forum but not a specific thread.

 

[Widdy]

Odd. Something changed, anyhow this thread http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2122858

 

[cmuro100]

got it now, thanks.

so the phosphates can stay locked in until they are leached out and they only leach if the water around them is clean and able to take the phosphates out, this stinks.

Anybody know how long it might take for it to leach out everything with my current methods?

I am hoping the end is near.

 

[rkaragozler]

in my tank I have been running Lanthanum Chloride for almost a month, and when I reduced my dosage the levels went back up, so in reality its just a matter of time.

 

[Boomer]

Good posts guys

Cumuro

Have you tested this meter on new water, a friends or LFS tank against another kit ?

 

[cmuro100]

I have not, i don't have any friends or other phosphate test kits.