BRS 2-part questions

[piranhapat]

Just when I thought I had it figure out. I always added two parts. If I don't Alk drops and Cal. Have SPS tank.My Ph will drop no lower than 7.8. I thought if you need to add daily you should use SA. And Sodium Bicarbonate for once in a while short fix. What two part should I use in my doser pump. Is Esv better for not spiking up Ph as SA. Or both same? I always test Alk and Cal. WEEKLY. If dose 45-50 ml water par are good. Mag once a month. Now I must have a CO2 problem. Thats easy fix. Are we just saying adding SA we need to watch Alk going to high. And maybe using Kalk to our ATO so we use less two parts. Or is it better to use Sodium Bicaronate? Confused again......:smash::givebeer::splitspin

 

[Boomer]

ESV is a balanced buffer as most are in this hobby, BS is not, as it contains no bicarbonate or Borate.

For CO2 issues it is better to use SA and or Kalk. Kalk is by far the best, if one can meet their demands with it, as it leaves nothing behind, like the Sodium in Sodium carbonate or Soodium bicarbonate.

No, it is SA for the short fix and BS most of the time.

People like to add buffers for pH and Alk. A buffer is for Alk, not pH. In short, this is what happens. You add the buffer, the pH and Alk go up. The buffer helped remove some of the CO2. We will say now things look perfect. The next day the pH has dropped, WTF !! The reason is that CO2 you remove came back but the Alk has gone up some. So, you add some more buffer, the pH goes up again. WTF !! The next day the pH is back where it was but the Alk is now even higher. If one keeps this up the Alk will be through the roof and the pH still to low. You can not stop the pH from falling when you have CO2. You can have a dKH of 14 and still have a low pH. The addition or removal of CO2 does not change the dKH, only the pH. The only thing that changes in the dKH, is the ratio of carbonate to bicarbonate. The lower the pH the more bicarbonate and the less carbonate and the higher the pH the more carbonate and the less bicarbonate and both make up the Alk.

There is nothing wrong with adding two- parts but should be done in a balanced way. At times the Alk part of the two -part can not fix things like you want. The reason many drip Kalk at night, as it combines with CO2 to make bicarbonate. Since you have removed the CO2 the pH goes up but the Kalk has little impact like bicarbonate or carb have on the Alk. In short, bicarbonate impacts the Alk the most, the pH the least, carbonate effects the pH and Alk the most and Kalk effects the pH the most and the least on the Alk.

Try reading through this.

Low pH cause and cures
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

 

[piranhapat]

Boomer thanks for explaining it. Video says what you mention. But they say for everyday use SA. I understand what you said and read Randy. They mention SA will raise Ph but never mention this is temporary fix. If I continue using this and didn't have Co2 my ph and Alk can go very high. But since I have Co2 problem my Ph is low. So not causing a higher PH as of yet. I understand that ATO water Is putting almost a gallon a day of fresh 7.0 and in time will affect my tank Ph and water par. So thinking of adding Kalk in ATO. That should help Ph and use less 2 parts. What do you recommend I should use in my doser if I still have replace Alk. Thanks ...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=47_h8fNMC58

 

[Deepseabeauti]

Boomer, Besides the fact that our aquariums are trapped indoors what causes high levels of CO2 in the aquarium? Besides the skimmer I have that heavily aerates the water and in my sump the return pump is a bit over rated so I return it back to the beginning of my sump where it dumps back in above the water line and aerates it some more.
I also use Light defuser panels (egg crate) to cover my tank top so it is able to for lack of a better word "breath" .

 

[Boomer]

Piranh & Deep

Today, I feel like a complete STUPID ass. In regards to using SA as a sole buffer, some of the improved 2-parts do just that. They are for those that have continuing low pH issues, as many have. The two-part with just BS or combo's of SA and BS are for those with more normal seawater pH. However, with just SA, one still needs to be careful.

SA as sole buffer

It will tend to raise pH due to its alkalinity part's elevated pH, as do most of the commercial two-part additives. The increase in pH depends on the aquarium's alkalinity and, of course, on how much is added. Adding on the order of 0.5 meq/L of alkalinity increases the pH by about 0.3 pH units immediately upon its addition (and even higher, locally, before it has a chance to mix throughout the aquarium).


This^ is saying be careful.


I'm lucky somebody did not beat me to death with this error I made on those posts. I for one SHOULD know better.


Pirah

that ATO water Is putting almost a gallon a day of fresh 7.0 and in time will affect my tank Ph and water par. So thinking of adding Kalk in ATO. That should help Ph and use less 2 parts. What do you recommend I should use in my doser if I still have replace Alk.

No, adding ATO water with a pH of ~ 7 has about nil impact on pH. This is because evaporated water does not remove the buffer. So, the buffer is still there. The reason buffers are added to ATO is for one who needs to get up their Alk or pH. Meaning, if your pH and Alk was constant, you would see no shift in the pH or Alk from pH ATO water addition.

Yes, it is always a good idea to add Kalk to ATO water most of the time.



Deep


Besides the fact that our aquariums are trapped indoors what causes high levels of CO2 in the aquarium?

First, the trapped in-door CO2. When the in-door CO2 pressure is higher in the air than the tank, it is like taking a garden hose to your tank and adding water to it. Pretend you have a inter tube filled with air. If you stuck the valve steam in the tank a removed core most of that air in the tube would enter the tank until the pressure in the tube equals that of the tank. And that is what high in-door CO2 does. All the aeration you try, skimmer, high circulation, etc., can not help, unless the CO2 pressure in the tank is less than the air. Pretend you have a tire with 30 psi and need to add air to get it to 40 psi. Well, if your air pump can not put out more than 35 psi, you will never get it to 40 psi. At times aeration can actually lower you pH, as it drives in more CO2. CO2 enters a tank very easily but it is allot harder to drive off CO2 from the water. If you took a glass of water and put a pH probe in it or some pH indicator, then blew in the glass with a straw, the pH will drop immediately and the indicator will change to a low ph color. If you know try to dive off that CO2 it will take hrs., to get back to the pH you had.

Second, tanks, sumps, etc., that are over feed, to many animals, dirty, etc., produce CO2 from reactions during their chemical break down. And CO2 can be generated faster than it can leave the tank. So, poor circulation, aeration, etc, helps little and can make it worse.





I also use Light defuser panels (egg crate) to cover my tank top so it is able to for lack of a better word "breath" .

Yes, enclosed tops often not a bright idea.