sump/fuge design

[tenMann2]

I'd like some advice on a sump/fuge I plan on building. I bought a new 30gal 36x12x16 tank. I'm looking to replace a wet/dry setup. Here is what I thought of so far. Does the functionality work and make sense to go ahead with the design or should I be making changes?

Current Tank:
I have a 72gl bow tank with left corner overflow. When the return pump is off it drains 3.5gl into the sump.
I couldn't go larger than 36" because the cabinet is narrowed on the sides at 12".
I haven't seen anyone include an ato reservoir in the sump design, but because of under cabinet restrains I had to do so, since my rodi unit is in the kitchen and my tank is in the family room 20 feet away.

Sump Equipment:
In the sump, first section is a SWC Xtreme 160 cone skimmer. I will place it on a pvc/eggcrate stand for water height of 9". Next section will hold my cheato/macro algae, than last section will be the return.
I have a jbj ato w/maxijet 1200. One float (set at 6" water height) in the return section and one float in the ato reservoir. A BRS dual reactor (phosban & carbon) fed from the return line tied-off. A Viaaqua 200w heater. Also a Bubble Magus BM-T01 doser (cal/alk/mag). Lastly, return pump is a Quit One 2200 @ 581gph

My questions:
1. In several designs I saw the return section had 3 baffles (over/under/over) for bubble trap, is the last baffle needed? or can I avoid it like in my design.
2. Is 1/8" good for glass baffle or 3/16" (if available) a better choice?
3. Should if feed the BRS reactor from the return or the drain?
4. Do I need to still run phosban/carbon or will chaeto/marco algae be enough?
5. Should I dose (cal/alk/mag) into the refugium or return section or in the displays overflow?
6. Is a filter sock necessary? Or should I just have the inlet pipe submersed 2" into the skimmer section?
7. Will the Quite One 2200 provide me enough turnover from the sump to display tank?

 

[mbg75]

Does the 30 have to be centered in the stand or will it push to one side?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[tenMann2]

Does the 30 have to be centered in the stand or will it push to one side?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

The tank will be set to the far left of the stand. But it will not go flat against the side because the tank and the side wall are both 12", so I'll have to leave like 2" space on the left side. Leaving me like 10" of usable space on the right of the tank to hold my cal/alk/mag containers.

 

[rkaragozler]

I'd like some advice on a sump/fuge I plan on building. I bought a new 30gal 36x12x16 tank. I'm looking to replace a wet/dry setup. Here is what I thought of so far. Does the functionality work and make sense to go ahead with the design or should I be making changes?

Current Tank:
I have a 72gl bow tank with left corner overflow. When the return pump is off it drains 3.5gl into the sump.
I couldn't go larger than 36" because the cabinet is narrowed on the sides at 12".
I haven't seen anyone include an ato reservoir in the sump design, but because of under cabinet restrains I had to do so, since my rodi unit is in the kitchen and my tank is in the family room 20 feet away.

Sump Equipment:
In the sump, first section is a SWC Xtreme 160 cone skimmer. I will place it on a pvc/eggcrate stand for water height of 9". Next section will hold my cheato/macro algae, than last section will be the return.
I have a jbj ato w/maxijet 1200. One float (set at 6" water height) in the return section and one float in the ato reservoir. A BRS dual reactor (phosban & carbon) fed from the return line tied-off. A Viaaqua 200w heater. Also a Bubble Magus BM-T01 doser (cal/alk/mag). Lastly, return pump is a Quit One 2200 @ 581gph

My questions:
1. In several designs I saw the return section had 3 baffles (over/under/over) for bubble trap, is the last baffle needed? or can I avoid it like in my design.
2. Is 1/8" good for glass baffle or 3/16" (if available) a better choice?
3. Should if feed the BRS reactor from the return or the drain?
4. Do I need to still run phosban/carbon or will chaeto/marco algae be enough?
5. Should I dose (cal/alk/mag) into the refugium or return section or in the displays overflow?
6. Is a filter sock necessary? Or should I just have the inlet pipe submersed 2" into the skimmer section?
7. Will the Quite One 2200 provide me enough turnover from the sump to display tank?

1-imo yes the way you have it set up, water will have a water fall affect, and since the return pumps inlet is close to the bottom, it will suck in those bubbles.
2-do not use 1/8" glass it is way to thin. 3/16", or 1/4" is better.
3-you can feed all the reactors from the return pump, providing it is strong enough.
4-I would still run phosban, and carbon, no matter what.
5-all trace elements are to be dosed in a high flow area.
6-a filter sock will aid in capturing any floating particles, if you don't use it you will have to find a way to remove the build up from the skimmer section.
7-that pumps is rated for 594 gph, at 10.5' of head, if you are thinking of running reactors i would go 1 size up to a 3000, or better a 4000.\http://www.lifegardaquatics.com/products/product.php?id=10
I have 1 question to ask you??
If in the case of a power failure, and the water is drained into the sump/fuge, what happens if your calculations are wrong. and it goes into the ato reservoir, wouldn't you have to siphon all that water out and replace.
hope this helps, in your sump build.

 

[tenMann2]

1-imo yes the way you have it set up, water will have a water fall affect, and since the return pumps inlet is close to the bottom, it will suck in those bubbles.
2-do not use 1/8" glass it is way to thin. 3/16", or 1/4" is better.
3-you can feed all the reactors from the return pump, providing it is strong enough.
4-I would still run phosban, and carbon, no matter what.
5-all trace elements are to be dosed in a high flow area.
6-a filter sock will aid in capturing any floating particles, if you don't use it you will have to find a way to remove the build up from the skimmer section.
7-that pumps is rated for 594 gph, at 10.5' of head, if you are thinking of running reactors i would go 1 size up to a 3000, or better a 4000.\http://www.lifegardaquatics.com/products/product.php?id=10
I have 1 question to ask you??
If in the case of a power failure, and the water is drained into the sump/fuge, what happens if your calculations are wrong. and it goes into the ato reservoir, wouldn't you have to siphon all that water out and replace.
hope this helps, in your sump build.

Thanks for the help Richie.
So on your suggestion the 3 baffle for the water to go over would stop the waterfall effect to reduce the bubbles. Can I keep that height at 6" or should it also be 10" height?
My assumption was that a filter socks removes floating matter, making the skimmer less effective since it is doing the job of the skimmer. And that the filter socks traps all the pods, eventually to die when the sock gets changed out.
I understand the concern of having the water diluted if it overflows into the ato reservoir, but that is why I kept that baffle at 15" high. Any higher I would have flood in any case.
I tested how much the water drains from the display, and it was roughly a little more than an inch. Giving about 3.5gl to drain into my current sump (measured from the sump, not the display since it is bowed).
With the measurements I have, of the 30gal tank it will hold 12gl of saltwater and 6.5gl of rodi water. So with the 3.5gl display water added to the 12gl I still have 7-8gl of space for additional water to drain. Is there any chance that the display would drain more than 3.5gl that I'm not aware of?

 

[mbg75]

I was going to say if the sump can push over to one side, u can fit a plastic office garbage pail next to it under the cabinet as a top off container..leaving bigger sections in the sump.
I have a 6 gal pail in my stand.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[rkaragozler]

"So on your suggestion the 3 baffle for the water to go over would stop the waterfall effect to reduce the bubbles. Can I keep that height at 6" or should it also be 10" height?"

yes this is true, i would make the 3rd baffle 1 1/2" lower than running water level, in your case 4 1/2".

"My assumption was that a filter socks removes floating matter, making the skimmer less effective since it is doing the job of the skimmer. And that the filter socks traps all the pods, eventually to die when the sock gets changed out."

Skimmers can not remove all floating matter, IMO by adding a sock you are helping remove some of the larger matter.
in the 2+ years that I have been running socks i have only seen a couple of pods in my socks, usually the fish get to them before they get their.

"I understand the concern of having the water diluted if it overflows into the ato reservoir, but that is why I kept that baffle at 15" high. Any higher I would have flood in any case.
I tested how much the water drains from the display, and it was roughly a little more than an inch. Giving about 3.5gl to drain into my current sump (measured from the sump, not the display since it is bowed).
With the measurements I have, of the 30gal tank it will hold 12gl of saltwater and 6.5gl of rodi water. So with the 3.5gl display water added to the 12gl I still have 7-8gl of space for additional water to drain. Is there any chance that the display would drain more than 3.5gl that I'm not aware of?"

If you tested this situation, and you are getting 3.5 gallon power down situation, and you calculated total water volume left inside your sump (inner dimension) than you are good to go.

 

[Awibrandy]

Shouldn't the skimmer be placed after the fuge?

It was my understanding that the fuge should get the water draining from the display in order to give the macros all the nutrients, and the skimmer after so that it can clean what ever is left over once the macros had their chance.

 

[rkaragozler]

IMO no you would want the skimmer to remove any matter from the water column before the fuge, if it's the other way around it will remove anything that is growing in the fuge.

 

[Awibrandy]

IMO no you would want the skimmer to remove any matter from the water column before the fuge Is this not what the socks are for?, if it's the other way around it will remove anything that is growing in the fuge. I would imagine so, but don't most get killed by the return pump anyway?

Thanks Richie, never to old to learn something new.:wink1:

 

[rkaragozler]

"Is this not what the socks are for?"
yes it is for larger matter that can not be removed by the skimmer.
"I would imagine so, but don't most get killed by the return pump anyway?"
this is true, the only way you can have a fuge and not have die off is by havinf it gravity feed into the dt.

 

[tenMann2]

I was going to say if the sump can push over to one side, u can fit a plastic office garbage pail next to it under the cabinet as a top off container..leaving bigger sections in the sump.
I have a 6 gal pail in my stand.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Idea made sense to me at first and was going to switch the design, but that it occured to me. How the heck will I fill it up if it is shoved in the right corner of the stand which I wouldn't have access to since the sump would block the door. Only other way would of ment having to pull out a pump to fill the reservoir from the rodi container. So I'll leave that option out.

 

[tenMann2]

"My assumption was that a filter socks removes floating matter, making the skimmer less effective since it is doing the job of the skimmer. And that the filter socks traps all the pods, eventually to die when the sock gets changed out."

If you tested this situation, and you are getting 3.5 gallon power down situation, and you calculated total water volume left inside your sump (inner dimension) than you are good to go.

So the filter sock would get rid of the muck that is on the bottom of my current sump? I always have to use a wet/dry vac to vacuum that crap out that settles on the bottom.

Can the overflow ever fail. Meaning that it drains more than it would on a normal power cutoff? Like the durso standpipe in the overflow failing?

 

[rkaragozler]

yes, it will get rid of all that muck, and all you have to do is turn it inside out and wash it.
anything is possible in this hobby, but the chances are slim.

 

[allenjj]

Wisdom

I must say, Ritchie is a very patient teacher. I always learn from listening to his wisdom.

 

[rkaragozler]

I must say, Ritchie is a very patient teacher. I always learn from listening to his wisdom.

Thank you, I try to help as much as I can.

 

[tenMann2]

Thanks again for everyone who has helped. I must say I got many more replies on here than on RC.
Well anyhow, I got the glass cut, $5 a piece. I'll be taping up where the baffles will go and I should be set to silicone them in tomorrow.
Any technique preferred over others when siliconeing the bubble trap. Like the outside baffle or the middle one first. If it is the middle baffle first, what approach is best when siliconeing the insides of outer baffles?

 

[rkaragozler]

I always start with the skimmer level baffle, this one is the most important one, you really dont want any leaks here, do both sides here. if you have time let dry 24 hours between each baffle installation. just make sure all the baffles are square to the tank.

 

[tenMann2]

Here is the sump/refugium/ato all complete.
Took about 4 hours start to finish to complete with some dry time for the baffles. A lot easier than I thought.

 

[tenMann2]

The swap. Scary moment, but I succeeded.
I had to drain the tank and left about 20 gallons so the fish can swim. I put some extra supports to the left and right of the center post of the tank. Then, unscrewed the center post and hammered it out. Out when the inefficient wet/dry and 4 hours later in went the new sump. I'd like to thank everyone for the advice and help.

BEFORE

AFTER