Borneman surge problems

[ReeferAl]

I built a toilet flapper surge tank based on Eric Borneman's design. It has a "P"trap as he shows and follows his design as close as possible. The problem is, if I seal off any air in the flush valve stand tube then the flapper doesn't close after the first flush but just bobs half open. If I leave the stand tube open to air then I get alot of bubbles, and not just when the valve opens but throughout the surge. I have tried adjusting the air exposure of the tube with a valve, but the result is the same- either excessive air or a valve that won't close.

Has anyone else had to overcome this problem? And if so how did you make it work?
Allen

 

[Mogo]

When you disconnect the float from the flapper, does the flapper stay closed when filling?

 

[liquid]

So I take it you're trying to get a bubbleless surge using the toilet flapper? It won't happen as that's a catch-22 w/ that design.

Shane

 

[ReeferAl]

When you disconnect the float from the flapper, does the flapper stay closed when filling?

Not after the first surge. Even with the float attached the nylon fishing line just hangs so it isn't lifting the flapper at all. There is just no pressure on the flapper to keep it closed unless I allow air to enter the overflow tube.
Allen

 

[ReeferAl]

So I take it you're trying to get a bubbleless surge using the toilet flapper? It won't happen as that's a catch-22 w/ that design.

Shane

Not bubbleless, but I would like to see the bubbles at least restricted to the initial opening and not continue throughout the surge.
Allen

 

[liquid]

Probably won't happen. IIRC the Carlson surge will act like what you're describing, but the toilet flapper one won't.

Shane

 

[Mogo]

Hmm...
I had the opposite problem where the flapper would not release consistently (until I finally found a rubber band of the exact size that provides the right tension/spring effect.)

So...
Your flapper is floating when device is filling? I don't think you can have water between the p trap and your surge container when filling. It kinda sounds like you are getting a back siphon? Try raising your surge container higher creating more vertical drop. You haven't glued the pvc together yet have you?

I would not mess with the standpipe in any way that constricts the overflow unless your mop needs a good workout at some point.

In terms of bubbles- you will likely never get rid of them with this device. For me they provide a desirable affect as the surge looks just like a wave breaking over a reef from below. The bubbles (not micros) are present at the first part of the surge and clear the tank entirely within about 5 seconds. Awesome effect. Regardless, it looks like corals and fish love the dam thing. It was worth the original grief to get the thing working properly. I would recommend a surge toilet to anyone who has a larger tank.