New wavemaker device?

[Aquadude]

Has anyone bought one of these?

These would be awesome for my circulation pump project. I am a little reluctant to drop seroius money on one of these without knowing how they perform in the long run (leaks, gets stuck, etc), but just imagine the possibilities.... and more more stinkin' powerheads and wave makers! Check out the VIDEOS link on the webpage and see this puppy in action. I am impressed.

[/url]www.oceansmotions.com Link to the videos of product in operation, wait for them to load. http://www.oceansmotions.com/video.htm :D

 

[Aquadude]

URL's got messed up. Sorry.

http://www.oceansmotions.com/video.htm

http://www.oceansmotions.com

 

[tangir1]

Looks pretty neat, I feel.

Two comments. Pricy (for the 4/8 way models). Hopefully pseudo-mass production can make this cheaper. Part and material is cheap, but it is very time consuming to mill the plastic.

leaking/saltcreep issue... don't know how good of a seal the valve has, but for aquarium application, only the outer seal is the issue, unlike chemical process control.

 

[Aquadude]

You can read all about it here.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4973

The designer (concept.ca) is a regular on this forum.
He seems pretty confident in the design. TIme will tell.

 

[tangir1]

There is no magic in the device that need time to unfold. It works, at least conceptually.

One drawback compare to actuator-based wavemaker is the slightly limited control over each of the ports. But control == $$, so it is a very good compromise.

Maybe the designer can come up with a valve that works with stepper-motor. This way, more complicated flow pattern can be created with the same valve and minimium amout of electronic control.

 

[Aquadude]

"Time will tell" I meant that in terms of reliability. Usually design problems are not apparent until it has been running for many hours.

A stepper motor would be a cool idea. A microcontroller could create completely random currents. It would also have the added advantage of being able to pause at certain outputs for longer periods of time. Or have a "feed" or night modes where the output could be directed elsewhere in the tank. With the present oceans motions the outputs cycle every 60 seconds.

 

[tangir1]

Yeah, that 1rpm can be an issue for someone that want variation.

The idea was not new, however, but AFAIK, it is the first one that actually materialized. Kudos to the designer for bring the idea to fruitation!

The reliability can be improved by the use of magnetic drive instead of direct drive, for example. Instead of using gasket on the drive shift that can lead to potential leaking issue (the slow 1 rpm is partially the result), it is very easy to mill 4 pockets on the rotator and put 4 magnets on them. An external plate with 4 matching magnets will couple with the rotator, and turn it like some water pump's impeller.

This way, the whole internal can be seal with a cheap Neoprene gasket, and if you want, you can get it to cycle every second or less (I know... but you get the idea).

 

[golf nut]

Like this?

Old prototype, worked very well , but for other reasons I decided to adopt the new version.

http://www.oceansmotions.com/paul/miscphotos/mag8.jpg

If you want variation , stick a timer on it then you get what you want, moving from port to port in a second isn't actually that desireable, moving and waiting is far better, up to you.

Rotary hydraulic seal is a slightly better word than gasket...

Paul

 

[tangir1]

Welcome RDO!

That is very similar, but what I have in mind is two flat plates with matching magnet, not two cylinders with magnets mounted axially. It is easier to machine, IMO, with compromise of easier slipage.

>...Rotary hydraulic seal is a slightly better word than gasket...

I know, but we try to avoid engineering jingo as much as possible. Besider, with the plate configuration, gasket is a better term since it does not contact with moving/rotating parts.

 

[golf nut]

Thanx for the welcome

When I made the magnetic version it was exactly for the reason you described...zero leaks, as it happened when I tried this I discovered something else, which sent me back to the shaft drive. just something I don't want to give a potential competitor info on.
However, if you do try one with magnets I discovered it actually works better and with less friction if you get the magnest to repell each other rather than attract, then there is the issue of sealing them so the zinc doesnt get into the water.
I am prototyping a mag drive for a water park company, just a similar valve that the kids can redirect the water to different locations in a mobile.

thanx again

 

[tangir1]

I understant that it is sometime difficult to get every juice out of a brain of a businessman even if they willing to come to a DIY forum

One potential problem with mag couple is the difficulty in tranmitting the torque to the inner rotor, esp. when the magnet is not powerful enough. This can lead to slippage, mentioned above, and for some application, this is absolutely not acceptible. Other than this, I don't see any issue with mag couple unless there are some other issues such as cost of material or issue during milling process.
>... if you get the magnest to repell each other rather than attract,
With a N-S-N-S magnet couple, you won't have the problem making the decision. As for the zinc problem, most of the mag couple are epoxy sealed or encased in nylon/telfon, and it is very rare for the zinc or any metal to come out.

 

[golf nut]

Not exactly sure what magnet configuration you actually mean, but am interested for other purposes.

One of the reasons to move away from the magnets was that the new design was much simpler for interchangability,and kept drum costs down, also the design is so constructed that if while I am pumping 4000 gph through the system I can actually remove the motor, remove the drive shaft and the seal and yet have no leaks, the seal is simply a back up plan.

doesn'nt explain all but hope it helps

Paul

 

[tangir1]

>... Not exactly sure what magnet configuration you actually mean

Alright, one more time.

   N
   |
S--+--S
   |
   N

 

[J.Howard]

I wonder who can pee the furthest? :wink: Service...golf nut.

 

[tangir1]

:?

 

[Lostmind]

I wonder who can pee the furthest? :wink: Service...golf nut.

Huh?

 

[J.Howard]

As in an old fashion pissing contest. It was golf nut's turn to serve (like tennis). I felt like I was watching the US open in text form. Not that funny if I gotta explain. Oh well...

 

[tangir1]

it is meant to be a dialogue, a type of communication, not a "pissing contest" mind you!

 

[Lostmind]

Well, I didnt see the pissing match. I saw a two people discussing ideas on how to improve a product.

hmmm...

 

[J.Howard]

Well, I saw a pretty obvious trend of each of you trying to prove who was right or had the better idea. I am truly sorry if my sense of humor is lost on you overly serious brainiak types. I know we have some very bright minds around here that do more than just play with reefs for cranial stimulation beyond that of their job or profession. Forgive my clearly pedestrian point of view, but I thought the thread was for the purpose of inquiring about the use of a product, not how it should be designed, redesigned or who has a better understanding of electromagnetic force. Exchanges of ideas are wonderful, and that is what inexorably moves technology forward. If you really like discussing these things in lengthy detail, may I suggest a PM or direct e-mail, or maybe even the phone. One can lose interest if it goes off topic and to an engineering tangent.

So There!