sump design

[the dewd]

How does this plan look?

I need to bond lexan together and then to the glass. Anyone done that before?

 

[Len]

Do you plan on having the baffles that high? That would mean your sump water level will be that high, which is really high (too high for your skimmer unless you raise it). Aim for 6" or so. Also, the last baffle before the pump should allow ater to pass underneath it versus having water trickle down to it. The reason is bubbles rise. All the bubbles that rise to the top will cascade down (in and of itself will create bubbles) will overflow into the pump chamber.

The two main things to remember are 1) bubbles rise and 2) The more baffles the better.

I'll copy this over to the DIY forum.

 

[Anonymous]

There is no such silicone or glue that is made to glue glass to acrylic.

Having said that, I made my fuge using acrlylic and glass 5 years ago and haven't had any problems. Maybe I am just luck.

I built an overflow compartment and drilled the tank, so I was really running the risk of having a major leak. I would not build one again that way knowing that it's going to eventually fail.

Now if you're just gluing baffles and what not it doesn't matter because those seams don't need to be watertight.

It's when you drill a hole and are relying on the silicone from acrylic to glass that you need to find a new way.

HTH

Louey

 

[the dewd]

This is the plan.

 

[Anonymous]

It looks like you are only glueing your baffles in and all plumbing will be done without drilling the glass. If that is the case, standard aquarium silicone will work fine to hold your baffles in place.

I agree with len that your baffles look too tall. Your skimmer drain should be above the water line or else it will effect the way it performs. If your sump has a high running level it still needs to have enough capacity to hold the water that will drain from your tank when the power is interupted.

You could raise the skimmer if you are dead set to have a high running water level in your sump.

Louey

 

[the dewd]

how high should it be? I need room for my refugium. I was planning on raising the skimmer around 6 inches or so.

 

[Acrylics]

Coupla things for ya.
You can run a higher water level for the refugium without having the baffles that high. Most make the baffles 6-8" high for a sump that size but can run water levels of 10-12". It won't matter as your return pump's intake is not 12" off the bottom. The final baffle is usually 2" or so off the bottom and you can make one that goes *before* that that is 4-6" high to hold sand in place for your in-sump refugium. One of the things that often goes forgotten about is that if you make the return section too tall without a way for water to get under the final baffle - evaporation will deplete this section rather quickly causing your pumps to run dry (bad)

As for bonding the Lexan to glass, you can use either Weld-on 55 (not exactly common) which is a 2-part urethane epoxy-like goo that actually works quite well, or... silicone strips to either side of the Lexan on the vertical panels so that the Lexan is held in place by these strips - hope this is making sense, it kinda makes a channel that the Lexan sits in. Knowing the properties of Lexan, it is very soft and flexible with any sort of pressure, so any water level difference from one side of the baffle to the other will cause it to bow - which can easily break a regular silicone seal thus defeating the purpose of the baffle.

Another thing we do is to glue the baffles in at an angle so that bubbles will ride up the baffle and out of the sump rather than being forced down under the baffle by water flow.

HTH?

James

 

[the dewd]

Coupla things for ya.
You can run a higher water level for the refugium without having the baffles that high. Most make the baffles 6-8" high for a sump that size but can run water levels of 10-12". It won't matter as your return pump's intake is not 12" off the bottom. The final baffle is usually 2" or so off the bottom and you can make one that goes *before* that that is 4-6" high to hold sand in place for your in-sump refugium. One of the things that often goes forgotten about is that if you make the return section too tall without a way for water to get under the final baffle - evaporation will deplete this section rather quickly causing your pumps to run dry (bad)

I wanted to put in a auto top off in the return section like the one in the picture. I figured that the return area would be the best place because of quick evaporation showing in that area only.

If bubbles go to the surface and the pump is at the bottom why use a baffle at all? Can you explain to me the reason for them?

I wanted to cut slots into the lexan and let the water drain into the return area so no macros or any other life that floats goes into the return pump. If I use baffles instead will algea and stuff go under and over?

 

[the dewd]

As for bonding the Lexan to glass, you can use either Weld-on 55 (not exactly common) which is a 2-part urethane epoxy-like goo that actually works quite well, or... silicone strips to either side of the Lexan on the vertical panels so that the Lexan is held in place by these strips - hope this is making sense, it kinda makes a channel that the Lexan sits in. Knowing the properties of Lexan, it is very soft and flexible with any sort of pressure, so any water level difference from one side of the baffle to the other will cause it to bow - which can easily break a regular silicone seal thus defeating the purpose of the baffle.

Another thing we do is to glue the baffles in at an angle so that bubbles will ride up the baffle and out of the sump rather than being forced down under the baffle by water flow.

HTH?

James

I liked your website. Your the man. I like how you use super thick acrylic.
I was going to use methylene chloride for bonding the lexan together and then silicone to fasten the lexan to the 60 gallon glass sump. Is that what is in weld-on 55? I was going to silicone strips of lexan on either side of the 2 large dividers for support and then seal that with silicone to.


Is acrylic a better medium???

I can get smoked or tinted lexan precut for free from an aerospace interior manufacturing plant. Its 250 time stronger than glass.

If I were to put in a baffle should it be like the picture here?

 

[Acrylics]

I wanted to put in a auto top off in the return section like the one in the picture. I figured that the return area would be the best place because of quick evaporation showing in that area only.

Fair enough idea.

If bubbles go to the surface and the pump is at the bottom why use a baffle at all? Can you explain to me the reason for them?

Because when the water falls into the sump, there will be bubbles there, water movement itself can easily carry bubbles from one end of the sump tot he other.

I wanted to cut slots into the lexan and let the water drain into the return area so no macros or any other life that floats goes into the return pump. If I use baffles instead will algea and stuff go under and over

Perhaps some, but you can always use a screen to block that off. Having the water cascade very far over the "return baffle" can cause even more bubbles if the water level is too low. But if you have the auto top-off, this may be moot

I liked your website. Your the man. I like how you use super thick acrylic.

Thanks, I like thick acrylic too

I was going to use methylene chloride for bonding the lexan together and then silicone to fasten the lexan to the 60 gallon glass sump.

OK so far

Is that what is in weld-on 55?

No, Weld-on 55 is a urethane sealant, quite different from silicone. Stci with aquarium safe silicone if the 55 is not easily avaiable

I was going to silicone strips of lexan on either side of the 2 large dividers for support and then seal that with silicone to.

Yep, good

Is acrylic a better medium???

Not in this case, when attaching these two dissimilar materials (glass & either plastic), the method of attachment is the important matter, the medium itself is irrelevant and Lexan would work just as well.

I can get smoked or tinted lexan precut for free from an aerospace interior manufacturing plant. Its 250 time stronger than glass.

Free is a good price I use Lexan, MR10, Marguard, and other Lexan products quite frequently so am very familiar with it. It'll be fine for this application. As far as "strength" goes, depends on how it is defined but that's just semantics With regard to impact strength - you'd be quite correct.

James