Plumbing Problem HELP!

[Anonymous]

If it were me I would send one return to the sump and the other return to the refugium. Then, a couple/few large siphons from the refugium to the sump. If you can set the refugium higher than the sump it's even better.

I do have a concern though. You have quite a bit of plumbing there. I'd suggest you perform a power-off test to determine how full the sump gets after all the plumbing drains back into it when the pumps are unpowered.

 

[johnfluevogs]

guy..i dont quite understand you theory on sump/refugium/returns...

you talk about sending one return to the sump and one return to the refugium, do you mean drains??


as for the plumbing, I have included a check valve right after the pump so that my returns cannot siphon water back down into my sump. Although power off situation is a very very good idea and I am keeping it in mind. Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

you talk about sending one return to the sump and one return to the refugium, do you mean drains??

Doh!!! Yes, the drains from the tank.

as for the plumbing, I have included a check valve right after the pump so that my returns cannot siphon water back down into my sump. Although power off situation is a very very good idea and I am keeping it in mind. Thanks!

Some people have good luck with check valves. I have never had a system where sponges, foraminiferans, and spirorbidae worms haven't quickly populated the entire length of my plumbing. They can easily prevent a check valve from sealing and allowing water to dribble through.

Make sure you have an easy way to clean them often or they just won't work. I use anti-siphon holes to prevent the returns from draining too much water. This is really really important with a 10 gallon sump.

 

[johnfluevogs]

I got the system up and running...it was quite exciting. So I ran it for a few hrs and was comfortable so I drained it and decided to silicone my overflow box in place and then we will test it tonight and make sure all will work as planned. Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Anonymous]

We need pics once the tank is going!

 

[johnfluevogs]

I am moving in 2 weeks and that is why I am setting this tank up and screwing with it now. I currently only have fresh water in it for testing purposes but I plan on transfuring my corals etc on the 28th of this month. I will keep eveyone posted. Thanks again!!

 

[johnfluevogs]

ok.. the system is up and running with the overflow box....I seem to have made some mis-calculations. Due to the positioning (height) of the overflow box and the groove I machine in the sides....the water level is dangerously close to the edge of the tank.

So.. my crazy dremel skills forced me to modify the box while it remained siliconed to the back of the tank. I increased the depth of the grooves in the front of the box and then tried it out and the water level is more appealing, though I think I will go ahead and make the sides of the box deeper as well.

My question is in the sump...are the drains supposed to be sumerged in the water or out of the water. I am finding with them out of the water the system is so loud it would keep fish up at night. I like the noise level with them in the water? Help please.

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Submerging them is fine. Have you dicovered that the pump send tons of microbubbles into your tank or do you already have baffles in the sump?

 

[johnfluevogs]

I do have a single baffle in the sump from an earlier idea and it seems to be working fairly well as far as bubbles making there way back into the tank is concerned.

I am really focusing on the overflow box and the water level in the tank and bringing it down to a more confortable level.

 

[johnfluevogs]

Hello all.

I have successfully moved my livestock etc into the new 30 gallon with no casualties.

I do have one question...

As mentioned before I have 2 1" drains and when I had the system up and running with fresh water i was able to turn the drain by adjusting an air valve so that the water in my overflow box stays hi enough to not cause a flushing sound.

Now that I have salt water in it and etc I cant for the life of me get it to shut up.

Any Ideas???

 

[Anonymous]

Saltwater is slightly heavier and therefore creates slightly more suction as it goes down the plumbing? This is just a WAG but it sounded good on paper.

If the above statement is true then you'll need to open the air valve more. If it's wide open then maybe you need a second air hole?

I hope someone else replies too because I'm just guessing here.

 

[johnfluevogs]

I may have to agree with you.

I do have my air valves wide open and they are sucking air like crazy. My next step was to see if I have any larger air valves in my inventory and try those.

FYI...I do know that it sort of helps if i take the "air cap" off one of the drains. Therefor allowing one drain to syphon and the other to just drain regularly but I dont like this idea as i would like both drains to be operating the same ( by syphon) and i want them set up so that they can take what ever flow rate is given to them may it be 400 or 800.

I dont know.. more screwing around :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Will more air flow through if you take the air valves off completely?

 

[johnfluevogs]

Oh yeh...

Thats what i was trying to explain.... I can take one valve off completly and the system runs only OK

BUT if i take both off then the drains will not be syphoning and therefor will not keep up with the flow.

See I found out that a 1" drain can only handle 600gph if it is syphoning the water out of the tank. If it is just free draining it is far less.

Long story short the air valves controll the speed of the drain or the percentage of syphon. And I cant take them complely off.


This is all my own theory so take it wil a grain of salt.

Thank you though for your input its very helpful.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't see this thread sooner, don't know why.

I have a couple ideas as I had problems with my setup that sound very similar to yours.

I started by taking everything off of my drain line that had an inside diameter smaller than the inside of 1" pvc. That means that I had to take out adapters that went to 1" hose as the inside measurement was only 5/8" on them. I also had to take out the ball valve I had put in line because the inside measurement in the ball was less than 7/8". That may not seem like much but it does restrict the flow a quite a bit.

The only thing I see in your return line that may restrict the flow is those ball valves. If you take apart the union's there can you see if the inside of the valves is the same size as the pipe? How about the unions? Some unions are not full flow either. On a drain line this is important.

The next thing I did on mine which you might want to try or you might not (this is purely for the noise, and not for the actual flow rate) is to put a cap on top of your drain line (right on top of the Tee) and drill a hole in it and slide a piece of small hose down it right down the drain. I put 1/4 inch hose down mine and you can control the sound by moving the hose up and down the tube. It takes a bit of patience, but when you find the right spot the drains shut right up.


The last thing I have to say is you should be less concerned with both drains doing the exact same thing and more concerned with them having excess capacity for flow. In other words, if something partially blocks one of them, will the other handle it? On my system I had two one inch drains and I throttled back my return pump (Iwaki 30md) so that I could cover one of the drains with my hand and the tank would not overflow. The one drain would get significantly louder, and there would be loud sucking noises, but no overflow. I actually liked it like that because it was a warning, anytime I heard loud sucking noises I knew there was some sort of problem with the tank.

Anyway, I hope that helps a bit, good luck and be sure and post pics of the tank with the inhabitants in it later.

 

[johnfluevogs]

I put about 10 lbs of live agrogate sand in my refugium with a few lbs of live rock and 1/4 of cheto (green hairy stuff). There are also a few snails.

Now I question the light cycle on the refugium. I currently have two strip lights above it one with a 6500k generic bulb and the other an actinic. How should I time the lights??

 

[Anonymous]

It depends on what the purpose of your refugium is. Typically, RDP works well (reverse photo period). Light the refugium when the display tank lights are off.

If the purpose of your refugium is to grow bugs then I'd suggest just leaving it dark.

 

[johnfluevogs]

I have herd horror stories about calerpa and if you allow it to reproduce and seed with will find its way back into your show tank.

I know I have cheto, or whatever you call it. Is this a valid concern?

Will the plants (cheto) survive in the dark?

 

[Anonymous]

I know I have cheto, or whatever you call it. Is this a valid concern?

Will the plants (cheto) survive in the dark?

Chaetomorpha doesn't "root" so no matter where it shows up it will be easy to remove.

If you're going to grow algae then you'll need the light. RDP will work well.

 

[johnfluevogs]

AWSOME! Thanks for your input