any one use pocket hole joinery on diy stands?

[wereef]

I just got a new Kreg K3 Pocket Hole Jig system for christmas and intend to use it for the building of my next aquarium stand. I have never used pocket holes and screws so I am stuck trying to figure out which part to drill the pocket into?

My stand will be made out of 3/4" cabinet grade oak ply and the screws are 1-1/4" course thread wet environment screws.

The stand will be a basic box with 2 doors so the face frame will have one stile in the center. I know the center stile should be placed between the rails but am unclear as to the stiles on the ends. Also I plan to use a solid 3/4" sheet as a top for the cabinet 48x24 which will be glued/screwed down from the top and into the rails.

I have included a picture showing the 4 different face frane posibilities and need to know which option is correct.

The picture is drawn in the perspective of looking from the back facing upright at the top left side of the face frame.

The stand will be 48" L x 24" W x 32" H and will hold an AGA 120, a 29 gal sump and 3/4" oak ply canopy.

Thanks for any help you may give.

Wereef

P.S. Here is what the jig system is: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11410

 

[Anonymous]

Man, why'd they have to improve on it since I bought my Kreg Kit I LOVE all the new improvements though

As for your question, it depends on how you want the over all look to be. If you use #2/#4, you'll see end grains. If you don't mind that, I'd go with #4. If you do care about the end grain, I'd go with #3. Some might argue that #1 would make for a stronger rail, but I don't think it'll be all that of an improvement.

 

[Anonymous]

I have to say that I am not into pocket joints in a structure that has to support so much weight. IMHO, they remove too much material from the structural elements.

Having said that, I would definately go with options 2 or 4, depending on how you are planning to join the face frame and the side frames. Options 1 and 3 depend on the shear strength of your screws for support, and given the inexpensive proceses that are used to make screws these days....

Are you using plywood for the structural elements? Or just the sheathing? IMHO, 3/4 in plywood is strong, but it is not designed to stand up to the compressive forces that roughly 1200 lbs of water and rock are going to apply to it daily under high humidity conditions.

There are a lot of opinions in this response and I might test them with some other wood workers in your area.

By the way, that's a nice jig! It's totally innappropriate for making stands and you should pack it up and send it to ME right away :wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

The shear strength of the screws really isn't that big of an issue being that he's topping it with another 3/4" piece of ply above it. If it was just the rail, I'd be right there with yah

 

[wereef]

Thanks for the replies.

Seeing the end grain will not be an issue because I plan to use solid oak outside edging on the corners of the frames and the sides of the box will be screwed/glued to the back of the face frame. I have never built a stand for this big of a tank so I am considering the structural issues more than looks at this point.

I have built stands for tanks ranging from 20g to 55g but never 120g.

I am considering making a frame from 2x4's then using the 3/4" ply as a cover but would like to just use the 3/4" ply if at all possible. This is why I plan to incorperate a 3/4" top. I may even go with a 3/4" bottom and use metal "L" bracing on the top and bottom to help tie them into the face and rear frames.

I/m also kicking around the idea of adding a drawer option to add to the face frame strength by adding 2 rails to the upper face frame spaning between the stiles.

Any way, Option 4 seems like the direction I should go?? See pic below...

Thanks again for any input you can offer.

Wereef

 

[Anonymous]

If I were doing it, here is what I would do...


Make the face frame just like you have it pictured in the picture directly above this post.

Build a frame from 2X4's to support the plywood top, you can find pictures of them all over here, Space Ace built one just recently. Then the Face frame you built gets fastened to the front side of the 2X4 stand and matching plywood on the ends.


That's how I would do it

In fact, that's how I made this one....

 

[Anonymous]

Common platform framing utilizing 2X4's on 16" centers will carry almost any tank size you can build. Its compressive strength is even higher in a stand than a building because individual studs are only 3' long instead of 8' long. The only requirement with platform framing is lateral support. You can do this by inleting 1"x4" corner bracing, using metal strap for crossbracing or using sheathing like plywood. 5/16" to 3/8" is sufficient for 8' walls so it is surly strong enough for a 3' stand. If you want an opening, then span it with std. framing headers. 2"x6" double headers with 1/2" plywood filler will easily handle 3' spans.
When you are done this will be a heavy piece of furniture, but there should be no worry unless you plan a 6' deep tank.

 

[wereef]

Thanks and NICE stand Knuck...

I only have one question...

If I make a 2x4 frame then face it with 3/4" ply, should the tank edges rest above the 3/4" ply rails or 2x4 rail?

I am assuming that the 3/4" top resting on both will make it simply an astetic choice of how I want to trim the cabinet because the weight will be spread over all in either arrangement.

Thanks again to all the input. I can't wait to get this puppy going!

Wereef

 

[Anonymous]

Really the 3/4 plywood top should sit overtop of everything.


The tank edge can be anywhere on the platform, you can build the platform extra large so you can sit things on it or you can build it just big enough.


I would leave a bit of extra room just for looks.

 

[Anonymous]

www.bad-coffee.com/reef/stand is a rough web page of my stand. 2x4's and 1/4" ply. No need for 3/4 (cost or weight) for a 20 gallon. I'd even use it on a 120 with the right bracing. The 2x's will hold the weight. The skin is just for looks, and lateral bracing. if it's glued and screwed down well, you shouldn't have any problems.

But then you don't get to use your new jig. . .

B

 

[minibowmatt]

to get back to the original question, I also think that the pocket holes are not a good choice for anything structural. They are great for a face frame. I would do a 2x4 frame, skin it with 1/2" and be done. Cut a full overlay door into it,and your set.