DIY double stack external refugium

[Darkbaron1192]

Hey there!

I have a 125 gallon reef tank, and I am creating a double stack, (two 29-gallon tanks, one on top, and one inside an iron cage stand.) I can work on F-15 aircraft no problem, but I have little plumbing experience. I created a manifold for my tank, but linking 3 tanks together is a little confusing.

The problem I am running into is this:

The reason I am making an external fuge is for the pleasing look, and ease of maintenance. I can only fit a 20gH in my stand, and I want an excellent fuge. The big deal here, is power outages. Its almost like when it rains a mist, the power goes out. this isnt too much of a problem except when it does, my siphon tube sucks down 5 gallons of water into the sump, thus causing it's decommission. I have a standard rinkydink overflow, and run out of funds to get a nice, expensive overflow box. I need a temporary solution to a long term problem that will get upgraded.

I want to have overflow to the top 29, baffled in two areas with no pump. The inner portion will have a nice refugium, hopefully with relatively little sloshing, that I can keep looking nice, and eventually house seahorses (2). The bottom 29 will gravity-feed from the top 29, and be loaded to the brim with chaeto. what I want to do here is add an acrylic wedge where the water falls, causing a tumbling current to ...tumble the chaeto ball, over and under a baffle, to a pump that brings the water back to the DT.

The chaeto tank can remain half full, to accommodate any backsiphoning from either of the other tanks, giving me a 15-20gallon leeway. I can NOT have anymore floods, the wife will annhilate me and I dont feel like replacing carpet.

What size/type of plumbing do I need, is a 700 gph EXTERNAL mag drive pump usable in this configuration, (if not, what is the most cost efficient pump to return water back) and what type of overflow box do I need? Could I make my own bigger overflow? I am going to eventually get a CPR CS100 overflow box, but anything I can use to satisfy requirements for now? I have about 500' of 3/4" vinyl tubing, 15' 3/4" pvc, several ball valves, a mag drive 700gph@6' pump, 12 MJ1200 powerheads, and a ViAqua 2600 at my disposal.

Any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated.

Adam

 

[Anonymous]

Before answer you the rest of the questions, have you consider using a anti-siphon valve (one variation is a hole on the siphon tube right under the water line on the higher tank) to lessen the possibilty of flood?

BTW, welcome to RDO!

 

[Anonymous]

Why does the 5g into the sump cause a decommission? Does it flood the sump or break siphon? For either case we can help. Just need to now how it is setup.

You can build a simple pvc overflow that does no require drilling the tank, maintains the tank level while running, Maintains siphon during periods of power outage, and stops overflowing when power is out.

My "gut feel" this is the problem just that I need more information.

Never never never design a system IMHO that requires check valves. They are not needed and can fail.


Just my .02.

 

[Darkbaron1192]

Sorry for not replying sooner.

the sump I have installed atm is a 20 gallon high tank, with under/over baffles into the fuge area, and over/under baffles to the pump. What happens is this turns the 20g/h into a 20g sump with a 10gallon refugium area. The first problem is that it is too small of a refugium for a 125. Secondly, topping off the water due to evaporation is really, really annoying. At the pump portion, I have to run the pump unrestricted or else it fills up and overflows. There is no happy medium here. The pump area is just wide enough that 1-1.5 gallons of water can be held there. Consequently, as evaporation occurs, I have to top off my water in the morning, after I get home from work in the evening, and right before I go to bed. I dont have top-off systems, nor do I have extra space to put a water holding tank or whatnot. What happens, is when the power goes out, that little pump area is what gets flooded. Ill just turn that sump into a QT and use the 29 stack I have for the fuge. Bigger, multiple use, external so easier to take care of... just a few reasons.

7E: No, i didnt think of the anti-siphon hole thing, but that kindof scares me lol. What happens if a fish swims by the top and breaks suction? then I get 29 gallons on the floor. Oh im in a pickle huh?

Like I said. I can tear up and put back together an F-15 fighter jet, but plumbing gets me.

 

[Anonymous]

A fish won't be able to break the siphon. Only when the water level in the top tank is lower than certain point does the siphon breaks. Ideally, you should have an automatic siphon restarter, such as the use of a AquaLifer or a venturi powerhead, to restart the siphon once the water level is going up again. HTH.

 

[Anonymous]

It's beginning to sound like you need the antisiphon holes.

one of the basic things in sump operations is that as either container has its water level rise, the other starts sucking air before it floods.

Any closed container can be a siphon including the return lines. If they exit in the tank say 4" below the water line the tank will drain down 4" by the siphon in the lines. So just still a little hole no more than a very small amount below the water line. Then the tank goes down to the hole starts sucking air and water stops going to the sump. The holes can even be above the water line.

On the other hand if the top constainer overflow fails (blocked ot break siphon) insure the pump starts sucking air before the top container floods.


Set it up get and running. Then turn off the power. fill the sump up. The restart the power. Insure normal operations resumes. Then break siphon on the top container overflow. If not a HOB then plug the overflow. adjust the pump intake to that the pump sucks air before the top floods.

Then repeat the tests until you are happy with the operation.

.02

 

[Darkbaron1192]

Man. I installed my pre-plumbing on the front side for ease of maintenance setting it up and glad I did. At first I had just the overflow into the top, and plumbing to the bottom, with the pump recirculating the water back to the top. This gave me a good mixture in the water (did some added salt to the setup.) I let it circulate for about a half a day. In the meantime I set up a ten gallon for copepods, and did some research on phyto. I put the pump return line onto the DT, and decided I needed a ball valve on the plumbing line from the top fuge to the bottom. It seems no matter how small of a tweak, I just cant get the water levels in all three tanks to stabilize. I am going to take some photos, and post them when I get to class in a couple hours.

 

[Darkbaron1192]

Id also like to know why no matter what code I type up, my tank link doesnt show as a hyperlink other than the entire addy. harumph

 

[Anonymous]

In a multiply tanks system, one of the tank will have a variable level, typically the one on the very bottom, and it is usually refer to as sump. The rest of the tanks (two in your case) will have water level controlled by gravity (overflow), not by ball valve or pump capacity. It is nearly impossible to accomplish water level control by valve or pump unless you have a very sophicated feedback mechanism (actuated ball valve and water level sensor, for example) that can adjust to the level continuously.

 

[Anonymous]

your tank

 

[Darkbaron1192]

Ah I see. So my adjusting all night was for no reason, grr. It eventually settled out and I think it was the height of the siphon pipe to the "sump" fuge.

testing example :A HREF="http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=90965">my tank</A:

<A HREF="http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=90965 ">My Tank</A>

 

[Darkbaron1192]

Ok I got one for ya. If the power goes out, the pump turns off. The backsiphon and everything are A: O.K. until the power comes back on. Then, the pump turns back on, and floods the tank because the siphon for the stack hasnt restarted.

Is there some sort of breaker that I can use in the case of power failure? Something to the effect of if the power goes out, the breaker shuts off due to lack of current, and then when the power comes back on, the pump remains off until you manually reset the breaker?

...or is there something I can DIY to do this?

 

[Anonymous]

Ok I got one for ya. If the power goes out, the pump turns off. The backsiphon and everything are A: O.K. until the power comes back on. Then, the pump turns back on, and floods the tank because the siphon for the stack hasnt restarted.

Is there some sort of breaker that I can use in the case of power failure? Something to the effect of if the power goes out, the breaker shuts off due to lack of current, and then when the power comes back on, the pump remains off until you manually reset the breaker?

...or is there something I can DIY to do this?

you need to maintain the overflow siphon during power out. Both the inside and outside ends of the hob tube need to be underwater and no air must get into the hob tube. That way when the power is restored the siphon starts up again.


Most HOB overflows have boxes that trap water at the u tube ends. With the inner box determining the water level in the tank. You might look at that idea and diy it for your situation.


I have designed the "beaslbob trap" if you are interested. You would need to setup some kind of prefilter in tank but these did test fine. In one case I left the power out for 3 hours and it restarted.

first design:

second using two u tubes to make mounting on tank easier:

final design with common trap but require more behind tank space (the garage clutter is not required :lol:

my .02

 

[Anonymous]

A fish won't be able to break the siphon. Only when the water level in the top tank is lower than certain point does the siphon breaks. Ideally, you should have an automatic siphon restarter, such as the use of a AquaLifer or a venturi powerhead, to restart the siphon once the water level is going up again. HTH.

The aqualifer I mentioned above will restart the siphon for you when the pwoer is restored.