FYI - Unauthorized Product in Asia Market | EcoTech Marine

[khuzdul]

I bought a used Ecotech XR15-FW from somebody a week and a half ago from Rochester NY (I am in NYC). After the mount finally came in, I set it up using the connection manager. Ecotech kindly informed me that they suspect that my light was "purchased from an unauthorized retailer" and that my ecosmart account is now disabled. I can't tell if they also disabled any functionality of the light, as my account is disabled, and the programming just before my account got disabled was set to end the photoperiod by now. I can manually change modes / light intensity, though it will not remember it after an auto-power-switch turns the outlet off and on. Reseting the light requires the use of the connection manager...

I searched and found a news posting on the Ecotech site (I can't post it till I have 5 posts) about unauthorized products in the Asia market. I totally understand that if there is some dubious products that they would not provide support, but it is pretty upsetting that my ecosmart account is now disabled and ecotech might have decided to "remotely disable any and all features of the products rendering them unusable" of my "new to me" light. I already have have two WXMs for two tanks, four MP10ws with QuietDriver upgrades on order once they come back in stock (though thanks to the WXMs they do not need the ecosmart account to run those that I know of). However I just orderd a reeflink controller and another pump to set up a freshwater tank with the now possibly partially bricked XR15-FW.

Anyway, if you get a "good deal" and are buying a recent product from someone you do not know, it wouldn't hurt to run the serial number through the "unauthorized product in Asia Market" site. It would have been nice if that particular news release had been more widely distributed.

 

[Edv]

Do you have the link for the unauthorized product in Asia Market?
Place it up if you can.

 

[khuzdul]

What do you know, that was my 5th post! Here is the link:

http://ecotechmarine.com/news/unauthorized-product-asia-market

The only other reference that I could find for it was on some Singapore reef club from December, so it may have been a "grey market" issue there. Ecotech just announced a new Singapore distributor in March...

Anyway, I'm not coming down too hard on Ecotech for trying to defend their IP. Sucks that it means that the end-user might get banged hard - reserving the right to brick equipment someone bought innocently seems a little harsh. I can live without a "cloud" account since I have other options, but I am re-evaluating my reef products that don't have complete standalone functionality.

 

[Edv]

Thanks good to know. Saving link to my smart phone just in case I find I deal so I can check it out before buying it.

I hope you get it straighten out.

Good Luck

 

[oh207]

Thanks for sharing. I use only Ecotech products and I never considered that a device could be blacklisted.
I only purchase from BRS, so I should be good. But I never like when a manufacturer can remotely limit the functionality of a device. Smells like invasion of privacy. Regardless if the device is legit or not.

 

[Edv]

But it makes you wondered. going to a swap or listing from any where thinking you got a deal BAM you are out..

 

[masterswimmer]

I fail to see how Ecotech invaded anyones privacy or did anything wrong. A foreign company fraudulently produced a counterfeit product under the guise of selling it as the original. This takes money out of the pocket of the original manufacturer, Ecotech, with the additional possibility of having to shell cash out of pocket for 'warranty' issues. The patent Ecotech holds is an international patent in addition to the trademark infringement.

Please explain to me how Ecotech did anything wrong here. I'd be very curious to hear anyone's take on this.

 

[Widdy]

Read several forums on this issue, no mention of counterfeiting until now. Unauthorized is what it is being called... not entirely sure what unauthorized means. Grey market? If that's the case, not providing any support for the product in question is understandable. But to intrusively disable features, functions or bricking the product is not cool - if that is indeed true.

 

[fredro]

I am fairly certain that they aren't counterfeit products. That are authentic EcoTech lights that were sold by a retailer that isn't an authorized retailer. Meaning that EcoTech won't guarantee that their product, if it was sold new by an authorized retailer, will work and be guaranteed/waranteed, as they would with a product that were sold by an authorized retailer. EcoTech is well within their rights and is in NO WAY acting inappropriately in this situation. I would suggest that the OP contacts EcoTech Customer Support directly, by telephone and explains his current situation. EcoTech has stellar customer service and if there is a possibility that they can resolve the matter, they will certainly go out if their way to. Hope this clears things up.

 

[khuzdul]

The Ecosmart live suspension page had a link to contact support, and I filled out all the information that I had. It was an immediate suspension with the page to contact support within three days. It required a distributor field, but since I bought it as a private sale of a used product, I put in what information I had about the guy there, which did not include an address, so I had to put in things like NA for street address, so I'll see how that goes for me.

I won't be able to tell if the light is going to operate according to the programming today because the photo period starts after I leave for work and ends before I get home tonight. If the threatening language about bricking the product is just related to the "advanced features" that require their cloud, but the basic functionality of the lamp is intact, then I think that Ecotech is well within their rights. I don't know if the warning page is just bloviating legalize, but it states outright that they reserved the right to entirely brick the light, which I do not think is within their rights and is not appropriate.

Their immediate ban of my account on the Ecotech live site impacts not only the one product in question, but it would also revokes all other Ecotech live product advanced functionality if I had used their cloud services. I have two tanks with Ecotech products, but controlled through WXMs. I'm not close to them now, but I can tell through the APEX Fusion cloud that they are operating fine (my reef tanks are at work since I spend most of my waking hours there!) If I had been using a reeflink instead of APEX, not only would the advanced functionality of all my gear now be disabled, I'd be worried that the gear was not running right and I wouldn't know the status of my tanks all night long, and that would be a high anxiety inducing event. Instead of knocking back a drink or two, posting on the web and going to sleep, I would have been driving into work with "dumb" powerheads and bubblers to make sure that nothing was dying on me and be able to re-establish flow if needed. This was going to be my first reeflink / Ecosmart Live tank since I did not think that a planted freshwater tank needed an APEX. Disabling Ecosmart Live for all products immediately is, I think, inappropriate. Slightly less inappropriate would be a warning that the account would be banned in three days but allow at least monitoring of your tanks for that period instead of immediate loss of all functionality for all Ecotech Live features. Appropriate would be not loosing advanced functionality for all the other Ecotech gear for any period of time.

That I might be able to call and resolve the issue is a credit to their phone support. I will try to do that during the day when I have a moment. But I can say now from personal experience that being banned first and spending all night in limbo is NOT stellar customer support, regardless of whatever the phone support can do for after the fact.

I did not know that there was some sort of backend distribution agreement issue going on with Ecotech products. Researching the account banning page after it happened to me was the first I heard of it. Even if I did know about a distribution problem in Asia, the product information on the package is XR-15FW-US with a US power supply and power cord, so I'm not sure that I would have run the serial number through their Unauthorized Asia page prior to buying.

I don't know if it is an Asia issue, or if it is a U.S. issue, but factually there are boxes of Ecotech gear being sold on the used market in the U.S. that will cause unsuspecting end-users to loose access to Ecosmart Live for all of their Ecotech gear. Now that I do know, all I am trying to do is to inform people to check serial numbers through Ecotech prior to buying if they get a "good deal" from someone they do not know - so what happened to me does not happen to them. The penalty is high enough to an unsuspecting buyer that Ecotech and their distribution web should really be pushing the information a lot more broadly. I like Ecotech products in general. Ecosmart Live? Not so much... I understand if Ecotech needs to defend their IP and that cloud services are ephemeral, but I am now quit of any gear that requires cloud services for full functionality.

 

[khuzdul]

Just an update - I threw a webcam onto the tank, and it appear to be working according to the last programmed schedule, so it seems that Ecotech did not brick anything. Just no access to Ecosmart Live. Running it long term with the current schedule or with just "basic" functionality and an outlet timer works for me... Their legal department needs to tone down the rhetoric! I will hopefully have time to call the customer support about the account later today.

 

[fredro]

Again, I can say that a phone call to their 1800 number will likely be your fastest and least stress-filled way of remedying this situation. The blocking of the ecosmartlive account is only temporary, as an effort to encourage the customer to actually do something about the situation and identify and locate the unauthorized product. I am fairly sure that once you make contact with them and explain the situation, that in the very least, they will be able to remove the light from the ESL profile, restoring functionality to the remaining products. The form you filled out is many to clarify to them and prove a legitimate purchase of the product by the ORIGINAL purchaser, if in fact the series number has been incorrectly blacklisted. Filling out the fields with info like NA and the credentials of the person you bought it used from (who I am interested to hear how he is responding to this issue), will not suffice in restoring any of the services or product legitimacy. It's purely to prove that the light was bought from an authorized dealer, nothing more. That is why a phone call is needed, to fully explain the situation and hear all of your options. There's a chance that you may be SOL and in that case, I really can't blame EcoTech for disabling the light (and hopefully restoring all service to ESL and the remaining devices as long as the light is not active in the profile), in which case the only person or people that really did you wrong is the person who sold it to you, who likely ran into this issue and passed it onto you), not EcoTech Marine. But then again, there's also a chance that there could be another outcome, but without calling in, your incomplete form of the used sellers credentials is likely going to get you nowhere and leave you even more frustrated that you were initially. I really think the question here is what is the guys story that sold you the light? He must've known about this issue and that's why he sold you the light. Good luck with getting this resolved. It sucks to get burned on something.

 

[Arati]

a few years ago 1 woke up in the middle of the nite to my mp40 making a horrid noise. In the morning I called ET and explained my problem. I was shocked at the reply!

The man on the phone said he would email me postage and an RMA I could send it back no questions asked. Then the shocking part.. he said he wasnt going to wait for my package , he was going to put a new wet side in the mail and ship it to me.. right now!

Two days later it was in the mailbox. There is simple no possible way for them to do a better job at customer service. They are legendary for great service.

you should call them.

 

[noelskii]

Maybe you were sold a "store display" model that was not supposed to be sold to the general public, since they don't pay the full retail price on them.

 

[fredro]

a few years ago 1 woke up in the middle of the nite to my mp40 making a horrid noise. In the morning I called ET and explained my problem. I was shocked at the reply!

The man on the phone said he would email me postage and an RMA I could send it back no questions asked. Then the shocking part.. he said he wasnt going to wait for my package , he was going to put a new wet side in the mail and ship it to me.. right now!

Two days later it was in the mailbox. There is simple no possible way for them to do a better job at customer service. They are legendary for great service.

you should call them.

^^^ THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! I have had more than one similar experience personally with this company and have heard of COUNTLESS more. I don't want to promise that they will make you completely happy after this, but I am having a hard time seeing them leave you disgruntled. They're the model for top notch customer service over there.

 

[Mattl22]

Also had above and beyond customer service from them

 

[bizzarro]

Wouldn't that be the service you'd expect after paying $300+ for a wave maker!

 

[fredro]

Any update?

 

[khuzdul]

I had started this tread as a PSA to others, not as a criticism of Ecotech or a personal rant post. After it drifted into that direction I thought that I would let the thread die since the PSA part had been accomplished.

In short, I'm boned. I'm not that upset with Ecotech. Ecotech is not a bad corporate entity, though they are not a good corporate entity either. Even if you have a great customer service, they can only operate within the defined corporate policies.

For the curious, I learned that someone stole some items from Ecotech (or it was reported stolen by a distributor I don't know which) in New York State. Ecotech knows the serial numbers of the items that were stolen.

If you link a stolen serial number to your Ecosmart Live account then it will be banned. The account is dead to Ecotech. There is no reversing the ban, no removal of the item from your account. It does not matter if you have documentation of your secondary purchase from whomever. It does not matter if you can show that there was no mens rea - that you purchased it in good faith. They only care about proof of original purchase from an authorized dealer.

I do not have any other gear associated with the Ecosmart Live account as I control my Ecotech products without it, so I do not know if you have a banned account if you can just create another account with a different email address and try to re-register your Ecotech gear to that new Ecosmart live account.

An Ecosmart Live account ban is not a ban on new commercial transactions with the Ecotech, and it does not affect their warrantee service of "authorized" items. This means that I can still get warrantee service for my existing gear and buy items new items both direct from Ecotech and from other distributors and get warrantee service on those items as well if I choose to.

However, I need to differentiate between the "base" functionality of any Ecotech items I buy (what is what is advertised as part of the product - look carefully at the box and not at a web page that may advertise more than one product on the same page) and any "advanced" functionality that is advertised as a part of the separate but free Ecosmart Live product as I would not get the "advanced" functionality since I do not have an Ecosmart Live account. I believe that creating a new login with a different address after having been banned once would be in violation to the shrinkwrap license agreement that you agree to when you set up an Ecosmart account, though I don't have access to it anymore to verify or disprove that belief.

The thief was/is selling the stolen items via eBay and Craigslist. Ecotech support was not surprised to hear about my situation, I am guessing that it is not a unique situation. The guy I purchased my light from had at least one more light and a pump for sale. The first name of the guy I sent my paypal payment to is not the name of the guy they were expecting, so there may be more than one person selling the stolen equipment. Ecotech did not express any real interest into the identity of the person who sold it to me (I volunteered the name, they did not ask for it and they did not really try to ask any followup questions), so I don't know how they, their insurance company, or law enforcement are pursuing the issue.

Since I paid with paypal, to receive a refund paypal provided me with a return label. Ecotech did not ask for the light back as is their legal right concerning stolen items (thief cannot convey good title), which I thought was odd. It is probably because Ecotech is no longer the true legal owner of the light - their insurance company assumed the title to the light upon paying any insurance claim. Without any direction from Ecotech otherwise for about a week, I returned the light to the person I bought it from to get my refund without a hassle from Paypal regarding inability to return the light. If Ecotech or their insurance company later decide that they want to recover it, now they will have to do it through an adversarial process against the seller. I have no idea what will happen if/when the seller re-sells it to someone else and they try to link it to their Ecosmart live account, but I am guessing that the new buyer will be boned hard just like I am regarding Ecosmart Live.

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at Holiday Inn Express at some point in my life.

In short, PSA again - if you buy relatively new products from someone you do not know or someone who does not have a built up reputation in a reputation system you know/trust, then run the serial number by Ecotech before you buy and/or register it with your Ecosmart Live account. If you pay with paypal, make sure you use the goods/service payment and not friend/gift payment. If you can, get a copy of the original receipt / invoice / proof of purchase / warrantee registration for the item you purchased as that can help establish that the item is "valid".

 

[khuzdul]

More about the return of the light to the seller since this is potentially a receipt of stolen property issue - I explicitly told Ecotech support that I was going to pursue a claim via Paypal and would return the light for a refund. Ecotech had plenty of time to request the item back on their own behalf, or on behalf of their insurance company. I informed Ecotech when Paypal actually sent me the return label. Ecotech also had ample time to forward the details of the current location of the light to their insurance company for their insurance company to contact me directly to request the return of the light.

As for the guy who sold it to me: I don't know if he had mens rea or was an innocent buyer also, so I am not going to publish his information.