- Location
- Duluth, MN
My appologies for cross-posting the same thread in multiple forums, but I figure it's the best way to hopefully catch someone's attention and gather up helpful info! This topic was first posted at http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.p ... opic=72646
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HOLY JUMPIN' GEE CARDINALFISH! Finally, it happened!
I have some vid...the darn fish literally did it behind my back...stopped paying attention for 15 minutes and missed the actual spawning...but caught courtship on VID and immediate post-spawn, the male with a HUGE mouthful!
So, here's how it went down. First, I have to point out that while I had been eyeing these cardinals for WEEKS in the dealer's tanks, what spurred me to make the purchase was when I noticed that one of them was holding a mouthful. While that first mouthful didn't make it through transport, for all intents and purposes I started out with a "proven" breeding group. "Cheating"? Perhaps
Anyway, I can now comfortably say I have 2 males and 1 female in this group. The only sexual dimorphic characteristics I've observed in this species are as follows. 1. The males have a "longer" head...more boatlike jawline, whereas the females mouth is a bit "shorter". Also, when "arroused", the ventral fins on the males intensify greatly from transparent to a bright orange/red. There are some subtle color pattern differences, but they don't seem "consistent" enough between the two males vs. the female to warrant them as anything other than random differences in patterning.
The reverse trio was placed in our aquarium 10-23-05, the male dropping his mouthful at the last possible moment - literally in the net being transfered to the aquarium. So, the fish had last spawned somewhere between 7 and 14 days prior by my guestimate. It's been 35 days since their introduction to our 24 gallon Nano Cube, and 35 days since the male dropped his last batch.
Intially, their tankmates consisted of 5 juvenile tank-raised Pterapogon kaudernii (Bangaii's). Since then, the Bangaii's paired off...the remaining 3 were returned. A pair of Firefish (N. magnifica) was added (seems to be a mated pair, and at the moment one of the two is remaining hidden in the bolt-hole, suggestive of another breeding event, but that all remains to be seen). In the last 24 hours 4 Apogon leptacanthus were added. Upon making this intruduction I wondered if "polyculture" of Cardinalfish would work in such a confined environment. Well, I didn't have to wait long for the answer! Oh, and yes, there are 11 fish in this tank, at least 10 Tridacnas, several coral frags, 2 species of Lettuce Nudibranch and at least a half dozen different macroalgae species growing in the tank. Water conditions - temps in the upper 70's...generally between 77 and 80F. pH usually around 8.1-8.2, organics basically all 0 (nitrates < 1 ppm), Total Alkalinity generally 3.5 or so (was at 4.25 at my last test) and I've been fighting calcium levels trying to bring them up, 425 ppm or so at my last test (up from the mid 300's a week or so prior).
Back the the Lattice Cardinals. By the 26th, only three days after their introduction, I first observed what I suspected to be courtship behavior...at the very least behavior indicative of male/female interactions...flared fins, increased intensity in coloration of the males etc..
By November 3rd, these interactions between the female and males seemed to have died down. Perhaps the heirarchy amoung the three was simply reestablished?
I didn't note any changes until the 18th, when we had a near-wipe out of the tank due to the surface skimmer being blocked...a slick developed on the surface and I suspect it hindered gas exchange. The result was my awakeing in the morning to find two of the three Lattice Cardinals gasping at the surface. Fixing the skimmer and performing a partial water change brought everything back to normal within a few hours, although for the next couple days the fish did not feed as heavily.
That's "it" for my log notes. As I literally just posted an hour or two ago on another ongoing thread, I noticed what I suspected was breeding behavior in ernest. Here they are to recap:
I'm glad my digital camera (used to shoot vids) time stamps stuff. I shot my first vid upon noticing courtship behavior at 8:38 central time this evening. (Lights go off around 11:30 PM - 12:00 AM) Today was a bit unusual in that I turned the lights off EARLY the night before (around 10:30 PM) and turned them on EARLY today (6:30 AM today)...perhaps this shift in lighting was what kicked them into spawning today?
Anyway, back to the spawning. At 10:23 PM, the Cardinals were still courting but no spawning. The 2nd male would jump in the fray and get chased out by the dominant male and, to a greater extent, the female. While the males may initiate courtship with their constant displays and general gentle harrasment of the female, once the actual spawning sequence has begun, the female DEFINITELY is in charge!
I was getting tired, took a break and figured I'd check in on them a bit later. I checked occasionally...hoping to catch the females "ovipositor" dropped or something that would clue me into the fact that spawning was iminent. As the evening progressed, I kinda figured that spawning would occur AFTER lights out.
Then it happened. Somewhere between my last check and 11:15 PM, probaby a 15 minute window, the fish spawned. The males already distended jaw is now COMPLETELY bulged out. It's so remeniscent of the African Cichlids I used to raise (Yeah, figures I'd choose mouthbrooders as my first Saltwater Breeding Attempt). DARNIT I missed it...I told myself that I noticed these guys were going to spawn I'd sit there as long as it took to get it on vid. Oh well, I know what to watch for next time.
Now, raising these guys is going to be an entirely different story...we'll see how that goes. I DEFINITELY welcome ANY advice, especially from folks who've successfully raised Bangaiis or, even better, other cardinalfish (I've seen a species similar to this being offered as tank-raised...going to have to relocate that online vendor and see if they'll help me track down the source, which will hopefully give me helpful tips). Questions I have yet to answer is how large these will be when compared to other Cardinalfish fry...from the look I got at the first batch the male dropped, there are going to be at least 50-100 eggs in that mass.
Here's the REALLY cool part. While I didn't get the spawning, I have several short videos to share immediately prior and immediately AFTER the spawn.
I went through all the video (about 20-30 minutes worth in total) and selected a few good ones. These are compressed, reduced frame rate (15 fps) and delivered in FLASH (sorry, I couldn't find anything quick to get the Quicktimes into a better format for web-delivery). Each file is about 13 mb and 1 minute long. I am uploading these as I type this (1:00 AM) so some links may not work right away. I'll check them all as soon as the upload is complete and fix any broken ones!
Pre-Spawn #1 - The first real courtship activity I noticed this evening, dominated by the female.
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/pre_spawn_1.html
Pre-Spawn #2 - Notice how the male yawns...part of the "dead give-away" of unsual behavior that set up flags that something was different about the pairs interactions vs. their daily routine of the males dancing in front of the lone female in the tank.
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/pre_spawn_2.html
Pre-Spawn #3 - Really highlights a couple things - first, it pretty much proves that my unknown fish is a 2nd male. 2nd, it's interesting how both of the pair fend off this intruder, although the female still takes a dominant role. 3rd, it should demonstrate that even though the male'c buccal cavities were ALREADY distended, the male in the pair still had an empty mouth. It seems that the "yawning" behavior helps "dislocate" a portion of the jaw (again, note the unusual lump on the chin...both males are displaying this as if each is anticipating a "load").
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/pre_spawn_3.html
Post Spawn #1 - note how much thinner the female is and how much BIGGER the male's MOUTH is!
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/post_spawn_1.html
Wish me luck!
MP
-----
HOLY JUMPIN' GEE CARDINALFISH! Finally, it happened!
I have some vid...the darn fish literally did it behind my back...stopped paying attention for 15 minutes and missed the actual spawning...but caught courtship on VID and immediate post-spawn, the male with a HUGE mouthful!
So, here's how it went down. First, I have to point out that while I had been eyeing these cardinals for WEEKS in the dealer's tanks, what spurred me to make the purchase was when I noticed that one of them was holding a mouthful. While that first mouthful didn't make it through transport, for all intents and purposes I started out with a "proven" breeding group. "Cheating"? Perhaps
Anyway, I can now comfortably say I have 2 males and 1 female in this group. The only sexual dimorphic characteristics I've observed in this species are as follows. 1. The males have a "longer" head...more boatlike jawline, whereas the females mouth is a bit "shorter". Also, when "arroused", the ventral fins on the males intensify greatly from transparent to a bright orange/red. There are some subtle color pattern differences, but they don't seem "consistent" enough between the two males vs. the female to warrant them as anything other than random differences in patterning.The reverse trio was placed in our aquarium 10-23-05, the male dropping his mouthful at the last possible moment - literally in the net being transfered to the aquarium. So, the fish had last spawned somewhere between 7 and 14 days prior by my guestimate. It's been 35 days since their introduction to our 24 gallon Nano Cube, and 35 days since the male dropped his last batch.
Intially, their tankmates consisted of 5 juvenile tank-raised Pterapogon kaudernii (Bangaii's). Since then, the Bangaii's paired off...the remaining 3 were returned. A pair of Firefish (N. magnifica) was added (seems to be a mated pair, and at the moment one of the two is remaining hidden in the bolt-hole, suggestive of another breeding event, but that all remains to be seen). In the last 24 hours 4 Apogon leptacanthus were added. Upon making this intruduction I wondered if "polyculture" of Cardinalfish would work in such a confined environment. Well, I didn't have to wait long for the answer! Oh, and yes, there are 11 fish in this tank, at least 10 Tridacnas, several coral frags, 2 species of Lettuce Nudibranch and at least a half dozen different macroalgae species growing in the tank. Water conditions - temps in the upper 70's...generally between 77 and 80F. pH usually around 8.1-8.2, organics basically all 0 (nitrates < 1 ppm), Total Alkalinity generally 3.5 or so (was at 4.25 at my last test) and I've been fighting calcium levels trying to bring them up, 425 ppm or so at my last test (up from the mid 300's a week or so prior).
Back the the Lattice Cardinals. By the 26th, only three days after their introduction, I first observed what I suspected to be courtship behavior...at the very least behavior indicative of male/female interactions...flared fins, increased intensity in coloration of the males etc..
By November 3rd, these interactions between the female and males seemed to have died down. Perhaps the heirarchy amoung the three was simply reestablished?
I didn't note any changes until the 18th, when we had a near-wipe out of the tank due to the surface skimmer being blocked...a slick developed on the surface and I suspect it hindered gas exchange. The result was my awakeing in the morning to find two of the three Lattice Cardinals gasping at the surface. Fixing the skimmer and performing a partial water change brought everything back to normal within a few hours, although for the next couple days the fish did not feed as heavily.
That's "it" for my log notes. As I literally just posted an hour or two ago on another ongoing thread, I noticed what I suspected was breeding behavior in ernest. Here they are to recap:
I'm glad my digital camera (used to shoot vids) time stamps stuff. I shot my first vid upon noticing courtship behavior at 8:38 central time this evening. (Lights go off around 11:30 PM - 12:00 AM) Today was a bit unusual in that I turned the lights off EARLY the night before (around 10:30 PM) and turned them on EARLY today (6:30 AM today)...perhaps this shift in lighting was what kicked them into spawning today?
Anyway, back to the spawning. At 10:23 PM, the Cardinals were still courting but no spawning. The 2nd male would jump in the fray and get chased out by the dominant male and, to a greater extent, the female. While the males may initiate courtship with their constant displays and general gentle harrasment of the female, once the actual spawning sequence has begun, the female DEFINITELY is in charge!
I was getting tired, took a break and figured I'd check in on them a bit later. I checked occasionally...hoping to catch the females "ovipositor" dropped or something that would clue me into the fact that spawning was iminent. As the evening progressed, I kinda figured that spawning would occur AFTER lights out.
Then it happened. Somewhere between my last check and 11:15 PM, probaby a 15 minute window, the fish spawned. The males already distended jaw is now COMPLETELY bulged out. It's so remeniscent of the African Cichlids I used to raise (Yeah, figures I'd choose mouthbrooders as my first Saltwater Breeding Attempt). DARNIT I missed it...I told myself that I noticed these guys were going to spawn I'd sit there as long as it took to get it on vid. Oh well, I know what to watch for next time.
Now, raising these guys is going to be an entirely different story...we'll see how that goes. I DEFINITELY welcome ANY advice, especially from folks who've successfully raised Bangaiis or, even better, other cardinalfish (I've seen a species similar to this being offered as tank-raised...going to have to relocate that online vendor and see if they'll help me track down the source, which will hopefully give me helpful tips). Questions I have yet to answer is how large these will be when compared to other Cardinalfish fry...from the look I got at the first batch the male dropped, there are going to be at least 50-100 eggs in that mass.
Here's the REALLY cool part. While I didn't get the spawning, I have several short videos to share immediately prior and immediately AFTER the spawn.
I went through all the video (about 20-30 minutes worth in total) and selected a few good ones. These are compressed, reduced frame rate (15 fps) and delivered in FLASH (sorry, I couldn't find anything quick to get the Quicktimes into a better format for web-delivery). Each file is about 13 mb and 1 minute long. I am uploading these as I type this (1:00 AM) so some links may not work right away. I'll check them all as soon as the upload is complete and fix any broken ones!
Pre-Spawn #1 - The first real courtship activity I noticed this evening, dominated by the female.
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/pre_spawn_1.html
Pre-Spawn #2 - Notice how the male yawns...part of the "dead give-away" of unsual behavior that set up flags that something was different about the pairs interactions vs. their daily routine of the males dancing in front of the lone female in the tank.
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/pre_spawn_2.html
Pre-Spawn #3 - Really highlights a couple things - first, it pretty much proves that my unknown fish is a 2nd male. 2nd, it's interesting how both of the pair fend off this intruder, although the female still takes a dominant role. 3rd, it should demonstrate that even though the male'c buccal cavities were ALREADY distended, the male in the pair still had an empty mouth. It seems that the "yawning" behavior helps "dislocate" a portion of the jaw (again, note the unusual lump on the chin...both males are displaying this as if each is anticipating a "load").
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/pre_spawn_3.html
Post Spawn #1 - note how much thinner the female is and how much BIGGER the male's MOUTH is!
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoreef/post_spawn_1.html
Wish me luck!
MP
