peppermint angel
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No clue how to care for it, but from what I've read in my Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes book by Scott Michael, that angel is usually very hard to keep. They very rarely accept food and since it's a deepwater fish, odds are that it suffers decompression problems. The only thing my book says food wise is that it is often seen picking at live rock and algae off the aquarium glass. Most people don't think it's worth going after because it's very hard to find, costs minimum $5000 (can go as high as $12000), and usually dies pretty quickly. In my opinion, it's kind of a flush down the toilet because $5000+ for a 3 inch fish that dies after being in captivity for 6 weeks or so isn't worth it. I think it should be left in the ocean.
Having said that, there is apparently someone in Japan that has a mating pair.
Having said that, there is apparently someone in Japan that has a mating pair.
I've also heard from multiple people that this is a virtually impossible species to keep alive in captivity (think Flowerpot corals). None of these seasoned hobbyist know any hobbyist that has kept one alive for very long. They usually go to Japan, and I've not read any reports except for one of someone there keeping them alive for over a year.
I think they would have similar care requirements as other deep water angels like Genicanthus Personatus which are another angel with a bad captivity track record. Unfortunetly neither are collected with any regularity so very little is know about their husbandry requirements.
I personally wouldn't mind attempting to keep them if I could get my hands on a pair.
I personally wouldn't mind attempting to keep them if I could get my hands on a pair.
Filio, would you pay their market prices though? 
I've heard some success with Personatus at places like Waikiki. I've not heard any success with Boyleis. Personatus occur in shallower waters (close to subtropical temps), but the places they can be found in shallow waters is off limits to collections. I don't think Peppermints ever occur in shallow waters.
I've heard some success with Personatus at places like Waikiki. I've not heard any success with Boyleis. Personatus occur in shallower waters (close to subtropical temps), but the places they can be found in shallow waters is off limits to collections. I don't think Peppermints ever occur in shallow waters.
The two themes to success on the above mentioned species are cool water and obtaining small individuals collected properly it seems. Not only are smaller individuals more apt to feed, but they decompress better from what I've seen.
The only documented peppermint still alive today (this was after speaking recently with four Japanese guys that know the market well... two major shop owners, and author, and a diehard aquarist) is an individual in Japan that was collected at about the size of a quarter. It's been alive for about seven years and is kept in a dedicated setup with water chilled to 22 Celcius (72 F). I think it's been about three years since Chip Boyle collected this species. The shallowest documented boylei I think was around 150 feet. I've kept a P. multifasciata for years now that I got small. Long term success with Centropyge hotumatua shows that these guys too must be kept cool.
As for the personatus, two of the four the Waikiki Aquarium has that are still alive were collected at Midway in '92 when small in 80 feet of water... wouldn't it be nice... A captively kept pair of personatus collected as adults did settle in for the long term, but it was a bear getting them to feed even in cool water. With the guys out in Hawaii getting trimix certified on their rebreathers hopefully they'll fish some out soon! They've already just got some more Bodianus sanguineus. Tourism to Midway is supposedly opening back up soon for those of us that dive mere conventional scuba... even B. sanguineus are found shallow there...
Centropyge abei is in the same boat and the one individual in captivity is now on display at Waikiki and looking much better than when Charles got it! Bright colors and a full body... what did it take to get it feeding? Dropping the temperature was it and good old TLC... Through the chain of collection it was kept in very warm water. I think it's at around 72 now after being in the high 60s for a while during recovery... maybe Charles could share a photo A C. abei juvenile was seen earlier this year over a period of about two months in southern Japan at a depth of just 15 feet! There's a photo in the new "Aneglfishes of the World" book that will be out soon... amazing... but it was in shallow water that was 63 degrees!
I think their cool water requirements will always limit how much these species are kept, even when they become available aquacultured. I chill a few of my tanks down to 76 for C. resplendens and others, but going into the low 70s starts effecting more tropical species and results in one heck of an electric bill! I'd imagine that even when kept at the higher end of their temperature range that their metabolism would be higher and their lifespan shorter in the long term... If anything did warrant a chilled species specific tank it would be a peppermint or personatus though for sure... 8)
The only documented peppermint still alive today (this was after speaking recently with four Japanese guys that know the market well... two major shop owners, and author, and a diehard aquarist) is an individual in Japan that was collected at about the size of a quarter. It's been alive for about seven years and is kept in a dedicated setup with water chilled to 22 Celcius (72 F). I think it's been about three years since Chip Boyle collected this species. The shallowest documented boylei I think was around 150 feet. I've kept a P. multifasciata for years now that I got small. Long term success with Centropyge hotumatua shows that these guys too must be kept cool.
As for the personatus, two of the four the Waikiki Aquarium has that are still alive were collected at Midway in '92 when small in 80 feet of water... wouldn't it be nice...
A captively kept pair of personatus collected as adults did settle in for the long term, but it was a bear getting them to feed even in cool water. With the guys out in Hawaii getting trimix certified on their rebreathers hopefully they'll fish some out soon! They've already just got some more Bodianus sanguineus. Tourism to Midway is supposedly opening back up soon for those of us that dive mere conventional scuba... even B. sanguineus are found shallow there... Centropyge abei is in the same boat and the one individual in captivity is now on display at Waikiki and looking much better than when Charles got it! Bright colors and a full body... what did it take to get it feeding? Dropping the temperature was it and good old TLC... Through the chain of collection it was kept in very warm water. I think it's at around 72 now after being in the high 60s for a while during recovery... maybe Charles could share a photo
A C. abei juvenile was seen earlier this year over a period of about two months in southern Japan at a depth of just 15 feet! There's a photo in the new "Aneglfishes of the World" book that will be out soon... amazing... but it was in shallow water that was 63 degrees! I think their cool water requirements will always limit how much these species are kept, even when they become available aquacultured. I chill a few of my tanks down to 76 for C. resplendens and others, but going into the low 70s starts effecting more tropical species and results in one heck of an electric bill! I'd imagine that even when kept at the higher end of their temperature range that their metabolism would be higher and their lifespan shorter in the long term... If anything did warrant a chilled species specific tank it would be a peppermint or personatus though for sure... 8)
Brooklyn Johnny":2ptxjxvd said:
I saw it a couple of weeks ago, and it looked skinny and panicked - constantly pacing up and down the glass.
What a funny looking angel - the Centropyge equivalent of a raccoon butterfly. If it weren't rare, it wouldn't be very popular.
Collecting at Midway is still prohibited, though.
RGBMatt-
Will sport fishing be allowed in the NWHI? If so, then typical government hypocrasy. OK to strip mine the ocean for one type of fish for sport, but to collect a few aquarium fish is EVIL. (please note sarcasm)
Will sport fishing be allowed in the NWHI? If so, then typical government hypocrasy. OK to strip mine the ocean for one type of fish for sport, but to collect a few aquarium fish is EVIL. (please note sarcasm)
Filio":2vtjpxic said:I would pay the money to get my hands on either Personatus or peppermints. I have a huge chiller just waiting for the right opportunity.
Hey Brooklyn Johnny,
How are those Africanus coming?
What's an africanus? :wink:
rgbmatt":2vtjpxic said:
Hey Matt, it's Copps from the other board. Charles was talking about how panicked it's been, but the recent photos he sent make it look much better since when they got it and it looks fatter... has it improved? I haven't seen the fish yet, but I head out to Waikiki next Saturday... excited to see that and the Nahackyi for the first time too!
The coolness of C. abei is not in its color, but its uniqueness. I had dinner two nights ago with Gerry Allen here in DC, who described the species. He said that after he looked at all the data the fish fell almost equally between Centropyge and Apolemichthys, but erred on the side of Centropyge. It apparently has no close relatives...
On a side note Matt, I made it out to Niihau last year at the recommendation of you and others and it was sweet... thanks bud!
sedgro":2vtjpxic said:
I bet there will be... at the very least "cultural fishing", but when it comes to collecting there it will be tough I bet even to get specimens for research or captive breeding efforts... There's something about keeping fish alive that governments don't like... :?
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