Any planted freshwater tank gurus here?

[Anonymous]

I've been considering one for a long time. It's kind of the last frontier for me. I have questions...

Jim

 

[Anonymous]

I set one up last fall. It did ok, but I kept imagining all the salwater stuff I could do with it. Fuzzy dwarf going in there this week! :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

:lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Jim,

I think I can help you out. You can check out my sorely neglected site:

http://www.planttank.com

Due to two young kids and a 150g reeftank, I don't have a planted tank at home anymore, but there's still one at work.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

 

[fishfanatic2]

What sort of questions do you have, Jim? Some beginning info-

-There are basically 3 ways to go in FW. Cichlids or community/amazon/tetras/schooling (same thing basically), or exotic. Take your pick.
-You are able to stock more FW fish in lets say a 40g than SW fish. I believe it is due to oxygen content.
-For live plants, absolutely 100 percently get a special substrate like EcoComplete or Flourite for them.
-Canister filters as well as power filters work well.
-When picking a tank go for length and width over depth (same as SW). Believe me, I made that mistake and now I am mad at myself for it.
-Think FW. Never think SW. :lol:
-Go for schools when picking out fish. That or cichlid pairs.
-T5's or PC's or VHO's work well over planted tanks. I have yet to see a plant-tank MH bulb.

You probably know most of this stuff, so what sort of questions do you have? Ive been in FW for 5.5 years, so I dont know everything, but hopefully I can help you out. FW, while maybe not as endearing as SW, is interesting and beautiful in its own right, especially if you go cichlids. HTH!

 

[Anonymous]

I've been keeping freshwater tanks for 20 years, so most of that stuff I know yes. I've kept and bred many species of cichlids, African, South American and Central American. I was even a board member for the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association. A regular "cichlidiot" if you will.

What I DON'T have a clue about is setup for a planted tank. That is the frontier for me. Lighting? How much for a 24" deep tank? Are planted tanks filtered with the same intensity that a non-planted tank is? Best substrate for plants? Etc, etc.
Thanks for the help.

I'm nearing the end of my web access (convenient access anyway) until Mon, so if you answer and I don't answer back until then, that's why.
You can PM me too.

Cheers
Jim

 

[benthos]

Hi, I got out of FW planted a couple years ago to start SW but dearly miss some aspects of it, Schooling emperor tetras, pearling bubbles on the tips of Ricia fluitans, etc...I think someone mentioned this but If I could add my two cents, 100% flourite substrate IMO is a must otherwise you'll be a slave to fertilizer pellets, A Co2 tank as well. You could do the DIY sugar and yeast in 2 liter bottle but only lasts a couple weeks.

If you havent already seen I would recommend looking into Takashi amano's planted tanks for inspiration. abouslutely beautiful.

 

[fishfanatic2]

I've been keeping freshwater tanks for 20 years, so most of that stuff I know yes. I've kept and bred many species of cichlids, African, South American and Central American. I was even a board member for the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association. A regular "cichlidiot" if you will.

What I DON'T have a clue about is setup for a planted tank. That is the frontier for me. Lighting? How much for a 24" deep tank? Are planted tanks filtered with the same intensity that a non-planted tank is? Best substrate for plants? Etc, etc.
Thanks for the help.

I'm nearing the end of my web access (convenient access anyway) until Mon, so if you answer and I don't answer back until then, that's why.
You can PM me too.

Cheers
Jim

Ah yes, the CICHLID BUG!!!!

Well, for lighting, some sort of flourescents would be the best. What kind pretty much depends on your size tank. For a smaller, 10-25 gallon tank regular output flourescents would be sufficient-anything larger Id go T5's, PC's, or VHO, doesnt matter as long as you have at least 1 specialty-plant spectrum bulb, makes the tank look a lot nicer and helps the plants. For a 24" tank, Id shoot for 3-4 watts per gallon. You can do 2 watts a gallon but I wouldnt only because it limits the type of plants you can keep and makes them more susceptible to algal attack. CO2 fertilization is a good idea, get a special substrate, and that's really all there is to it for setup. Oh, for filtration, it depends on how many fish you have- they make a greater impact on the filtering needs than the plants do. Canister filters with carbon work well. Also, hardness and nutrient content is very important for plants. They like iron, magnesium, potassium, and medium-soft water for the most part. All the nutrients you should get from your substrate, and you must know your water hardness some way or another if youve kept cichlids 20 yrs!!! For specific substrate brand, I am actually in the process of deciding this myself. There are really 3 main options-Flourite, Onyx, and EcoComplete. I personally think flourite has a nasty color. It really doenst matter, you can mix them with 'regular' gravel, but they work best alone. So its really color preference.

HTH, PM me or post any other questions if need be!

 

[Anonymous]

, and you must know your water hardness some way or another if youve kept cichlids 20 yrs!!!

Thanks for the info!
Regarding the above, here's something funny. I don't test for pH, ever. I've never owned a pH test kit. Not on saltwater fish tanks, not on reef tanks, or any cichlid tank I've ever kept. I've kept wild mbuna right out of the lake, and still pH has never been a factor. I've found (obviously) that pH really doesn't matter so much, except for discuss, and I've never bothered with those. On reef tanks, I adjust the alk, but don't do pH tests.

Jim

 

[Anonymous]

JimM:

No suprise on not doing the ph tests. What I have found out is that plant life maintains the ph just fine. Fw egg layers sometimes use ph drops to start spawning but otherwise ph should just take care of itself.

Your experience is much more varied than mine but you might consider a very simple planted system and just see if it works for ya. It can get much more complicated with filters and co2 dosing but here is the system I use.

Tank
sand
plants (esp anacorus (eldora) and vals)
tap water (untreated)
no water changes
open top
low level lighting
fish.

Just set it up with the plants then wait a week for the plants to estabish themselves. I then add a single male fish and don't feed it for a week. A single flake/day the second week that fish lives. Then add a female and let everything establish itself.

Notice no filters, no air stones, just the tank, plants, fish, and light. Have had tanks run for up to 6 years that way with descendants from the original two fish. Of course this was with live bearers. (red wag platties and guppies).

Also kept 4 angel fish in a 15g hex that way but they did not spawn.

In about 3 months you should have a nice planted tank with about 30 or so fish. No algaes and thriving plant growth.

 

[GSchiemer]

I've been keeping freshwater tanks for 20 years, so most of that stuff I know yes. I've kept and bred many species of cichlids, African, South American and Central American. I was even a board member for the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association. A regular "cichlidiot" if you will.

What I DON'T have a clue about is setup for a planted tank. That is the frontier for me. Lighting? How much for a 24" deep tank? Are planted tanks filtered with the same intensity that a non-planted tank is? Best substrate for plants? Etc, etc.
Thanks for the help.

I'm nearing the end of my web access (convenient access anyway) until Mon, so if you answer and I don't answer back until then, that's why.
You can PM me too.

Cheers
Jim

Jim,

My recommendation for a planted aquarium is as follows:

-I use heating cables under the substrate. These used to be very expensive, but low-cost alternatives to Tunze are now available. This is optional, but I found that the plants did much better in tanks with undergravel heating.

-I always put at least a 1/2" layer of laterite on the bottom. You can cover this with regular gravel or one of the Fluorite-type substrates to a depth of three inches.

-Traditional filtration is somewhat optional. You certainly don't need biological filtration in a heavily planted tank. The plants suck up the ammonia! I use an Eheim canister to lightly filter the tank and supply some water movement through a spray bar. I change the floss and small amount of carbon every few months, or longer.

-Lighting is also somewhat a matter of personal preference. I prefer an open-top planted aquarium. It looks nicer and allows certain plants to grow above the water line. This makes using fluorescent fixtures more difficult. I use small metal halide fixtures instead. A 150 HQI pendant works great over a 40 to 50 gallon planted aquarium, and boy do the plants grow.

-CO2 is a must. I always use it on a controller.

-The only parameter I measure is hardness, which is important when you're dosing CO2.

Good luck! Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Greg Schiemer

 

[Anonymous]

OK, here's my 58 when I had it running.

I used a nice black fine substrate material called Eco-complete that is supposed to replace laterite etc and seems quite popular in planted tank circles. I would recommend it.

I used lighting I had around; 3 VHO bulbs and a 2 short pcs on either end. I don't think it really needs to be brighter on a planted tank. It also had a DIY co2 reactor inline with an eheim canister filter.

My favorite thing about the tank were the shrimp that lived and reproduced there. I had a couple of species, but particularly the 1" bright red ones called "cherry shrimp" reproduced at a rapid rate.

 

[fishfanatic2]

I've been keeping freshwater tanks for 20 years, so most of that stuff I know yes. I've kept and bred many species of cichlids, African, South American and Central American. I was even a board member for the Pacific Coast Cichlid Association. A regular "cichlidiot" if you will.

What I DON'T have a clue about is setup for a planted tank. That is the frontier for me. Lighting? How much for a 24" deep tank? Are planted tanks filtered with the same intensity that a non-planted tank is? Best substrate for plants? Etc, etc.
Thanks for the help.

I'm nearing the end of my web access (convenient access anyway) until Mon, so if you answer and I don't answer back until then, that's why.
You can PM me too.

Cheers
Jim

Jim,

My recommendation for a planted aquarium is as follows:

-I use heating cables under the substrate. These used to be very expensive, but low-cost alternatives to Tunze are now available. This is optional, but I found that the plants did much better in tanks with undergravel heating.

-I always put at least a 1/2" layer of laterite on the bottom. You can cover this with regular gravel or one of the Fluorite-type substrates to a depth of three inches.

-Traditional filtration is somewhat optional. You certainly don't need biological filtration in a heavily planted tank. The plants suck up the ammonia! I use an Eheim canister to lightly filter the tank and supply some water movement through a spray bar. I change the floss and small amount of carbon every few months, or longer.

-Lighting is also somewhat a matter of personal preference. I prefer an open-top planted aquarium. It looks nicer and allows certain plants to grow above the water line. This makes using fluorescent fixtures more difficult. I use small metal halide fixtures instead. A 150 HQI pendant works great over a 40 to 50 gallon planted aquarium, and boy do the plants grow.

-CO2 is a must. I always use it on a controller.

-The only parameter I measure is hardness, which is important when you're dosing CO2.

Good luck! Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Greg Schiemer

I agree for the most part with Greg, xcept for a few points. Plants do suck up ammonia, but technically they suck up the nitrate which is a prudct of ammonia breaking down bacteria. This is waht I know, unless Greg knows something I dont, which is quite likely. :wink: Heating cables is a good idea,(didnt think of that), co2 of course, I dont really like using halides unless for the most light hungry plants-I like the softer look of flourescent. All you really need to test for is hardness like Greg said and nitrates once in a while.

beaslbob's setup is really only good for like 2-3 species of hardy weed-like plants and one or two species of fish. Personally I dont like this concept.

 

[GSchiemer]

Nope, plants preferentially use ammonia before it breaks down to nitrate.

Smaller metal halide lights, such as 70 and 150 watt fixtures work great over planted tanks, and are often more economical. It really depends upon the plants you want to keep. Some red varieties, such as rotala, really benefit from MH lighting.

Greg

 

[Anonymous]

Nope, plants preferentially use ammonia before it breaks down to nitrate.

Smaller metal halide lights, such as 70 and 150 watt fixtures work great over planted tanks, and are often more economical. It really depends upon the plants you want to keep. Some red varieties, such as rotala, really benefit from MH lighting.

Greg

Greg:

absolutely!!!!!!! and I didn't realize that plant life actually prefers ammonia until about a year ago.

This is an extremely important point which explains why planted tanks are so easy to maintain. With normal aerobic bacteria producing nitrAtes the plant don't have any choice but to consume nitrates. But then say a fish dies, you over feed, or something else goes bump in the night. then the plants step up and start consuming the increased ammonia and cutting short and vastly reducing the aerobic nitrogen cycle. The system has time to adjust to the new conditions preventing the possible crash.

Bob

 

[Mouse]

Basically, im using a Arcadia 4 bulb Overtank Illuminare, T5. You want to be getting about 3 Watts per gallon. (this is enough to make ground covering plants creep instead of grow, and makes all the girly pink stuff red).

Then you want a good substrate, Flourite is ok, but a major pain in the ass to clean. Ive just replaced mine with EcoComplete, Planted formula. Its black instead of red, its packed wet so no cleaning, and its full of usefull trace elements and minerals.

And finally C02, with a computer and solonoid. Takes the stress out of dosing, and you dont have to mess about with the needle valve too much, plus it helps to create stability.

My tank looks like its got rain falling in it in the evening, its open top, and the view from the top is allmost better than the front, plus you get the reflection in the back, which makes it seem infinate. But anyways, all the little bubbles of oxygen coming from the plants make it look like its raining from the top. I love it, and now ive got one running in peak condition, i think their hard to beat, even with a reef. Theres just something about them that's really chilled out.

Ill have to post pictures soon, ill wait till i get a bit more growth on the background plants and then ill post it.

Oh and RODI, Kent Kh+, and AB Aqualines GH+ makes up the water, and i only dose potassium (helps the plants to utilise the C02)

 

[Mihai]

-CO2 is a must. I always use it on a controller.

It is not. Unless you have a race and want to have faster growth than your neighbor, the plants will be OK with the nutrients they get from fish poop and uneaten food. At the same time they'll keep your sand clean by extracting those nutrients from the sand.

I always try to go with the natural way whenever possible (also see the under the sand heating post -> ?!!!?). But that's me.

M.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with mihai.

It does really depend on what you are trying to do.

If you want the absolute best plant growth then you probably should do all the extra stuff.

But if you just want a simple, easy to maintain system that is still awesome, then just let the plants and fish balance each other out.

Bob

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the great replies and advice everyone. 8)

Jim