Experimental Tanks

[Revsec]

It has been a few years since I have had a tank set up. I am thinking about setting up another 55gal freshwater tank. But I am wondering if anyone has had any experience with using a miracle mud or Jauberic plenum type system in freshwater or a combination of the two?

Does anyone know where I can find info about these 2 systems being applied to freshwater?

I had very good luck in my 150gal saltwater tank with the Plenum once I figured out that the secret was to keep a section of tubing in the dead water space under the gravel to vacuum out the contaminates. (I learned the hard way that not doing this will eventually poison the tank, afterall you can't put 10gal. of excrement in a 5gal space without overflowing.) :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sure you could use those methods.

FWIW miracle mud has been tested and found to be basically silica sand with higher then normal iron content. IMHO not worth the money.


In freshwater there is a wide variety of true rooted vascular plants to maintain the tank. Which is not the case in saltwater systems.

You may want to consider the standard leiden or planted type of tank. It is extremely easy to setup and maintain. The plants balance out and stabilize the system so it runs for years and years.

Here is a thread where my wife's son (Cal) tried that method

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60020

And osboy's tank using plants right from the start:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=70232

The key is to get the plants in there right from the start.

You could do that with a plenum also. I just don't think the plenum is necessary or even desirable.

just my .02

 

[Revsec]

The last 55gal freshwater I setup about 6 years ago had live plants and was too successful as an aggressive tank with large pacu, arrowana, and other aggressive cichlids. This time I will definitely put live plants in again but I do like to experiment with new technology. The new tank will predominatly be tetras and angel fish as I had good luck with these in my 10gal.
I was thinking that since these fish require a relatively low ph that this setup may benefit the stability of the ph levels. The system I was looking at was to use a plenum with a miracle mud refugium on the back then a canister filter for polishing. (the canister will not be running constantly)

 

[Anonymous]

Glad to hear it worked with agressive fish.

sounds like fun

and you also have success with the fish you want to use.

FWIW as you already know, ph is a function of carbon dioxide. Which in turn is a function of fish load, gas exchange, plant action, and buffers.

So in hard water tanks and marine tanks the plant life consumes the carbon dioxide plus the calcium carbonate in the system both help to raise ph up to 8.2 and higher. With plants it does drop back down at night but as long as the tank is a net producer of oxygen and consumer of carbon dioxide then things are fine. IMHO.

Plants will bioaccumulate buffers and if there is no calcium carbonate in the system (silica/lave rocks and substrait) will tend to make the water softer. With a fish load the ph tends down.

Some even use peat moss (in the substrate or wherever) to soften the water. Which seemed to help the neon tetras I had many years ago.

But I think with your success in a 10g you are well on your way.

just my .02

 

[Revsec]

I had never heard of anyone using Pete Moss as a substrate before. Is there some special type or just the Home Depot garden variety?

 

[Anonymous]

I had never heard of anyone using Pete Moss as a substrate before. Is there some special type or just the Home Depot garden variety?

Just the Home depot type.

Not as the substrate but as part of the substrate. I just used a thin layer with sand on top.

some put it in a bag in the aquarium to soften up the water a bit.

 

[Revsec]

Got ya!
For the plenum I was planning on layering it with a medium size gravel to a smaller size then sand and topped with blasting media. The moss sounds like it could be a good thin layer under the sand instead of using a mesh type material.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, it may have formed a kinda plenum. :lol:

 

[Revsec]

That is very possible. I was also thinking about putting some wooden structure in the tank for cover and to give it a more natural look. When I had my last tank I tried the wood thing and the whole tank turned white with some freaky bacteria and was a pain to clean out. (this was before any fish were in it). Do you have any good ideas of why this may have happened or any suggestions on a particular type of wood to put in the tank?

Is there something that you must do to it before putting it in the tank?

Note: The last piece was purchased from an aquarium store as drift wood.

 

[Anonymous]

That is very possible. I was also thinking about putting some wooden structure in the tank for cover and to give it a more natural look. When I had my last tank I tried the wood thing and the whole tank turned white with some freaky bacteria and was a pain to clean out. (this was before any fish were in it). Do you have any good ideas of why this may have happened or any suggestions on a particular type of wood to put in the tank?

Is there something that you must do to it before putting it in the tank?

Note: The last piece was purchased from an aquarium store as drift wood.

I have never used driftwood so maybe others can help.

But from what i have heard it is important to insure the driftwood is cured so that it does not release nutrients and/or toxins. The white cloud you experienced is common until the plants can catch up and consume the nutrients.

That said driftwood is a very comon and desired addition to any planted tank.

Just my .02

 

[Revsec]

I guess it would be advisable to plant the tank then put the wood in the tank and let it go. I had never seen anything like that cloud before it also had some nasty slime associated with it.

I really like the look of wood in the tank I guess at the time I was just a little impatient as far as letting the plants absorb the nastage.

I did learn with my SW tank that caves look really cool as well.
If you put an airstone in the back of the cave and allow the bubbles to come out the front it makes a very cool looking effect.

 

[Anonymous]

The last 55gal freshwater I setup about 6 years ago had live plants and was too successful as an aggressive tank with large pacu, arrowana, and other aggressive cichlids. This time I will definitely put live plants in again but I do like to experiment with new technology. The new tank will predominatly be tetras and angel fish as I had good luck with these in my 10gal.
I was thinking that since these fish require a relatively low ph that this setup may benefit the stability of the ph levels. The system I was looking at was to use a plenum with a miracle mud refugium on the back then a canister filter for polishing. (the canister will not be running constantly)

8O

 

[Anonymous]

Need a fresh water Tang for that 55 g - :lol:

 

[midgetwaiter]

There is a guy from Mexico that was using a FW pleum and has been writing into Bob Goeman's FAMA column for a while now. Works really well aparently.

I will try and dig it up for you.

 

[Anonymous]

The last 55gal freshwater I setup about 6 years ago had live plants and was too successful as an aggressive tank with large pacu, arrowana, and other aggressive cichlids. This time I will definitely put live plants in again but I do like to experiment with new technology. The new tank will predominatly be tetras and angel fish as I had good luck with these in my 10gal.
I was thinking that since these fish require a relatively low ph that this setup may benefit the stability of the ph levels. The system I was looking at was to use a plenum with a miracle mud refugium on the back then a canister filter for polishing. (the canister will not be running constantly)

8O

I second that 8O and raise you 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

 

[Anonymous]

Need a fresh water Tang for that 55 g - :lol:

More like a freshwater Nurse shark.
The last Pacu I raised was about the size of a 55 gallon tank.