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marrone

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I agree. Also, i bet there are some knee jerk reactions with some reefers when they first spot ich that you wouldnt see with a veteran reefer.

The thing is an experience person would most likely know what to do when they see Ich, and probably react right away before the problem gets out of hand. And an understanding of how to treat also makes a big difference, which someone that has a lot of experience would know better than some that doesn't. It's just like with everything else, you would expect someone with more experience to have better insight than someone that doesn't. Also, an experience person would probably have a better understanding in picking out fish and QT them before placing them into their tanks to start with.


It took alot for me to listen to what people told me... "dont do anything, keep your params perfect, feed well, soak food in selcon/zoe/garlic.... you'll be okay" Everyone i spoke to told me the same thing. Meanwhile the "official" word was 6 weeks fallow main tank and hyposalinity QT.

Unfortunately feeding garlic and all those other things don't work in killing the ich, as if they did you would find very few loses from ich, as most people don't do anything outside of feeding. In the end you'll find more than not the vast amount of people lose fish by either doing these things or doing nothing. Once again, the people that lose fish you never hear from, and those people vastly out number the people who have fish make it. All those thing that you mention, 6 week fallow, Hyposalinity, QT and copper do work in ridding your fish and tank of ich, but you do need to apply them correctly. And you also need to make sure that you have ich in the first place, something that isn't always clear cut when diagnosing the problem.


During this time i wanted hyposalinity, i wanted cleaner shrimps, qt, fallow, water changes, raise temp, lower temp, lower salinity just a hair, Lower it more, remove certain fish, add others.... etc etc.... knee jerk reactions. And who knows how many deaths because of it.

These maybe knee jerk reactions, but these are reactions to a situation that could, and in most cases can, be deathly to your fish. The thing is you need to determine which of these things work, and which don't work. If you apply the ones that work, and do it correctly, which is a major thing that is needs to be done, they will work and you shouldn't lose any fish, though nothing is guaranteed, then again nothing never is.

If i had the most deadly strand of ich i'd probably be saying something completely different right now. :0)

If it were'nt for the veterans that told me dont worry you'd be fine, i may have killed all my fish before the ich did. :0l

Probably not, especially if you applied the method that work, and applied them correctly. I would bet that you'll find more people lose fish by doing nothing, or not treating, then people that treat the problem. In the end, if it was that easy to get rid of ich it wouldn't be a problem at all, especially if all it takes is to feed them garlic and have good water conditions. Unfortunately it's not that easy and ich has been, and still will be, a major problem in people tanks.


On what Paul say, I think part of old tanks surviving, or not losing all their fish to ich, has do to with a couple of things. I think first the person is more experienced and has a better understand of what to do, and how to treat when something does happen, over say some that is a newbie. Second, and this mostly applies to reef tanks, is that a tank running that long will most likely have organisms that will feed on some of the ich spores, which can keep outbreaks in check some what. Similar in an older tank you will most likely have fish that have been kept for years and are very hardy. They probably have a better chance of fighting off the ich than fish that are newer. There was a strain a number of years ago that was pretty deadly, and wipe out a number of people tanks very fast, which included fish that had been kept for years, then again who knows if it was even ich to begin with.
 
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Paul B

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Similar in an older tank you will most likely have fish that have been kept for years and are very hardy. They probably have a better chance of fighting off the ich than fish that are newer.

I feel this is true, I recently lost a 12 year old watchman gobi, I think he died of old age and I lost the female months earlier.
The fish never showed any disease and just slowed down for a few days, stopped eating and died. I autopsied this fish and put his gills under a microscope.
I could not fine even one paracite. His gills were in perfect shape.
I am relatively sure there is ich in my tank because I don't quarantine and add all sorts of stuff from the sea but I thought I would at least find a couple of paracites.
I would love to know what is happening to the paracites in my tank but I don't have the facilities to find out.
If we knew this, there would be no more problems with this bane to hobbiests.
These were the breeding pair.
Gobieggs006.jpg
 

mic_1011

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it's amazing how much ick is out there and how it spreads like wildfire. i guess because of the nature of the trade, things are being exchanged from tank to tank to tank....but in my experience iv'e noticed that certain fish are naturally immune or do not show sign. i've also noticed this in fish that are scaly to not scaly. my tank has about 30 fish (not overcrowded though) 175 gallon 7 of them are small chromis, so you get the picture. i have lost clowns to ick but noticed they have more of a resistance than others, as do the chromis and wrasses that i have. powder blues and hippos are very suseptible and i have lost atleast 1 of each. the angels that i have are somewhat resistant but have showed signs. my firefish and pj cardinal have never showed signs! So is it possible for a fish to have an immunity. i would say yes. but just because they are immune doesn't mean they are not carriers. from what iv'e read and my understandings...it is possible to completely rid a tank of ick. here's what i have done. i removed all of my corals and treated my dt with cupramine. ick was heavily present at the time. the treatment quickly got rid of the signs. i treated longer than recommended. then i removed the treatment. waited a few weeks to see if anything showed up. i have not added anything during this period and do not plan on adding anything that can reintroduce the parasite. then i treated again as recommended (just to be sure) and removed the treatment once again. now at this point anything that might have laid dormant should be destroyed and my tank should be clear of ick. oh, and i do have a blue hippo who's about 18 months old. my corals are in a quarantine tank and have been for over 8 weeks, so when i do reintroduce them, they will be ick free. if anything comes of my experiment in recent weeks i'll be sure to post
 

evoIX_Reefer

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i thought cupramine was NEVER to be added to the DT. i believe it contains copper which will kill your sensitive inverts and thr treatment is to be done in a hospital tank? i had ick in my early days and some success in hypoaalinity and them some die since i waited off to see if they could defend against it.

i would stick with holding out or keeping no fish in the DT for several weeks or incubation period of ich. i believe that would be 5 weeks and then reinteoduce one fish for a week then the rest.

just my suggestion. the garlic feeding is for healthy immune not a fix. just learn from the experience.
 

mic_1011

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i thought the same thing. but my lfs used cupramine in their 220 gallon coral display tank. (without corals in it at the time) and then added the corals. said that cupramine is a different form of copper and is completely removable and doesn't leach. their corals are as healthy as can be! i have used it before and have been able to keep corals anemones and inverts after! i left my hermit crabs in the tank and they are still alive! i even saw a ghost shrimp alive and well in my overflow and he's still there! if you don't believe me i'll invite you over after i reintroduce my corals!
 

Paul B

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Put a PB Tang in your tank, and you'll find out real quick where all the ich is. :biglaugh:
I have had many tangs over the life of this tank and never had any ich. I am just not crazy about tangs so I don't keep them except for hippo's. I like the design, reminds me of something but I can't think what it is. I have always had a hippo in there.
My fish don't get ich, what can I tell you. :biggrin:
I know about the time bomb thing but when exactly does that explode?:cool:
 
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mic_1011

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It's a parasite. Like how dogs get fleas. Except ick is deadly. Any new additions to a tank can introduce it. There are a number of ways. Corals can carry it in but aren't hosts. An Infected fish. Putting any other water from a different system...best way to prevent is quarantine everything!
 

Will

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Not sure if this has been discussed already but I remember reading about an experiment done quite awhile back. In a laboratory they set up a new tank with fresh salt water , they introduced some fish. They then dropped the temp 10 deg very quicky and the fish came down with ick which that suggested ick is always present in the water column and attacks fish whose immune system is compromised..... anyone have any thoughts on this idea
 

mic_1011

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Not sure if that would be 100% true. Being that ick is parasitic, it would have to be introduced. Who knows if that experiment Was conducted correct. If a fish is a carrier but shows no signs. It is possible to stress some or all of the fish as they did. Any weakened immunity would make them mores susceptible. All it would take is 1 parasite. To feed. Fall off and multiply! Thus infecting others when its spores re enter the water column. But to say that it is always present in the water column would be hype. IMO. The reason ick is so persistent in our systems is that they are closed. Fish infected with ick in nature can swim away. Ick feeds then Falls off the fish can be miles away by the time the cyst explodes and introduces new parasites. Other fish in th area can get infected. But in the vast oceans they have less of a chance.
 
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fishman1069

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If you already got it, cleaner wrasse would help to check it getting out of control.
Not true! Found this on here http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/2/mini

"Fish often succumb to cryptocaryonosis despite the presence of biological cleaners such as cleaner shrimp or cleaner wrasse. While cleaners will exhibit their instinctual "cleaning" behaviors, do not assume that they eat trophonts, or eat them in sufficient numbers to affect a cure. "Cleaner" species of fish are also subject to infection.
Alexandra Grutter studied the stomach contents of the common cleaner wrasse or Labroides dimidiatus and found that their diet consists of gnathiid isopods, scales, copepods and non-parasitic copepods (Grutter, 2000). Cryptocaryon irritans was not found in the stomach contents indicating that it is not a part of their diet"
 

Paul B

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Fishman you can post that all you want but many people still will believe that fish or shrimp will eradicate ich. To me it is a no brainer and those animals will do nothing for paracites. I like those cleaner fish and shrimp only because they are interesting but I know that they will do absolutely nothing to defeat an infection.
 

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