Help my fish keep dying from ick
- Thread starter ivandrago
- Start date
- Location
- Bellmore, NY
Nope, no meed to remove rock, coral, or inverts. Ich meeds fish. Marine ich doesn't care about temp. The lifecycle is 28 days not 72 hours. 8 weeks fallow is the recommended but you see that creep to 10-12. If you get at least 28 days you should be good, but 8 weeks would be better.
- Location
- manhattan
stress
I never said stress is the cause of Ich. I was saying that stress can be a major factor in a fish being more susceptible to the infestation. I don't care where you go or where you buy from. If you had a lab test done on the holding tanks and such you will find all sorts of pathogens and critters. The fact remains some fish are more susceptible to certain types of infections while others are not, a stressed fish is more likely to fall prey to these pathogens and critters.
That was the gist of what I was saying. Please don't put words in my mouth or post.
I never said stress is the cause of Ich. I was saying that stress can be a major factor in a fish being more susceptible to the infestation. I don't care where you go or where you buy from. If you had a lab test done on the holding tanks and such you will find all sorts of pathogens and critters. The fact remains some fish are more susceptible to certain types of infections while others are not, a stressed fish is more likely to fall prey to these pathogens and critters.
That was the gist of what I was saying. Please don't put words in my mouth or post.
- Location
- The Big City
Actually my post wasn't directed at you, or your post, but it's a common thing that people think that stress is the reason that fish get Ich, which isn't true. A stressed or perfectly health fish can give Ich, all that is needed is for Ich to be present in the tank. The Ich looks for a host and attacks, regardless of the fish is stressed or healthy. The only think is a stressed out fish maybe better able to fight Ich off, then against plenty of healthy fish die from Ich too. The best thing to do is try and make sure you acquire fish from a good source, and even then you still need to QT all of your fish before placing them into your main tank. Just making sure that none of the water from where your purchased the fish doesn't get into the tank isn't good enough, as Ich lives inside the fish, especially the gills, and a fish that may look to be 100% healthy, in fact maybe carrying Ich.
Then again, it mayn't even be Ich in the first place. A lot of other diseases and parasites show the same symptoms as Ich does.
Then again, it mayn't even be Ich in the first place. A lot of other diseases and parasites show the same symptoms as Ich does.
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- Location
- The Big City
Unfortunately there is no way of telling if it's true, which it probably isn't. The Ich that is one the fish may die, or fall off, but Ich lives inside the fish, so you can't tell if the Ich inside the fish is dead or not from any 5 min treatment. Also, if it was that easy to kill Ich everyone would be doing it.
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- Location
- Port Jefferson station
Check for current with a meter. Just because everything is new means nothing.
How many fish are you adding at once are you checking for ammonia after a few days of adding the fish?
How long has the tank been running?
How many fish are you adding at once are you checking for ammonia after a few days of adding the fish?
How long has the tank been running?
- Location
- manhattan
Marrone. Ok cool didnt mean to be defensive. Some ppl respond to posts they really have not read fully. Maybe there should be a section on treatments as a resource to dispell all the bad/phony treatments of this or that.
- Location
- The Big City
There is a section already on the board, which contains all kinds of diseases and cures, not just for Ich, and does going into some myths and such. There is also a sections on Inverts and other undesirable thing too.
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/...ch.html?filter[29]=Diseases
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/pests/
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/...ch.html?filter[29]=Diseases
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/pests/
thanks
- Location
- Port Jefferson station
Hey Marrone read the thread summary "Help my fish are dying from ich" and yes stress is what causes them to die because of ich. The actual cause of death would be lack of oxygen because the fishes gills are damaged to put it in simple terms.
Healthy fish has very thick slime coats that protect them from most parasites (Notice you never see an eel with ich) when they are stress this coat is depleted and gets very thin allowing parasites to take hold. This is why I bring attention to the stress factor.
I find it amazing that people instead of sharing info would rather argue the experience of another aquarist. It's this ignorance that kills so many fish.
Thirty6, Whatever you do, do not remove all your rock as you will surely kill all live stock. Your rock is your main source of biological filtration.
-Walter
Healthy fish has very thick slime coats that protect them from most parasites (Notice you never see an eel with ich) when they are stress this coat is depleted and gets very thin allowing parasites to take hold. This is why I bring attention to the stress factor.
I find it amazing that people instead of sharing info would rather argue the experience of another aquarist. It's this ignorance that kills so many fish.
Thirty6, Whatever you do, do not remove all your rock as you will surely kill all live stock. Your rock is your main source of biological filtration.
-Walter
- Location
- Queens
I have to agree with marrone. The reason fish fall victim to ich is most likely due to the shear volume of which it is infected. Due to the parasites life cycle a fish in the wild can live its entire natural life infected with ich because it is not overwhelmed. Ich eventually reproduces then dies. In the wild it will fall off and the fish swims away(by this I mean in the wild the fish has a chance to rid itself of the parasites). In a closed environment such as our tanks. It reproduces falls off then reattaches to the same host this time in a greater amount and so on, eventually overwhelming the host. Because there is now more parasites attached to the host than the fish is able to fight off. This eventually leads to stress & death. But initially the infection is regardless of the fishes mental state.
- Location
- The Big City
Wally, doesn't really make a difference if a fish is health or stressed, if Ich is present in a tank, or is introduced, any fish in that tank can get it, regardless of it's condition. As a matter of fact you see this all the time. Person has a tank loaded with healthy fish, then introduces a new fish, which has Ich, then proceeds to lose all of his healthy fish from the Ich. As for seeing an eel, or even a Mandarin, get Ich, well I've seen both. It's rare but it does happen. The Ich, white spot, actually was on the fish eyes and not their body. Also, having a thick slime coating doesn't prevent the Ich from entering the fish mouth, eyes or even gill areas. What the heavy slime coating does is make it harder for the Ich, white spots, to come out through the fish skin. Usually a fish will produce a lot of extra slime when they're affective by Ich too, but that doesn't stop them from continuing to get re-infected again, especially in a close system like ours is.
Yes, it's ignorance that kills so many fish, as people don't take action when Ich shows up in their tanks, or just keeps adding more fish when the old ones die, not taking into account that Ich is still present in the tank. But the thinking that my fish has stress, and because of that my fish just got Ich, is completely wrong and is a very common thought process, and not a good one. People not taking into account that Ich is a parasite and a fish having stress isn't the reason that it came down with Ich just leads to more fish dying.
Yes, it's ignorance that kills so many fish, as people don't take action when Ich shows up in their tanks, or just keeps adding more fish when the old ones die, not taking into account that Ich is still present in the tank. But the thinking that my fish has stress, and because of that my fish just got Ich, is completely wrong and is a very common thought process, and not a good one. People not taking into account that Ich is a parasite and a fish having stress isn't the reason that it came down with Ich just leads to more fish dying.
Everyone has something that does not do well in their tank. Certain fish or certain corals. So you can either avoid them or you spend the time and energy to resolve it. To me there is enough diversity out there so I just avoid the ones that I seem to have problems with.
- Location
- Port Jefferson station
Let's agree to disagree. I have seen many more fish die from treatment than no treatment. First off ich is not the only thing that causes white spots. Any damage to a fishes slime coat can cause white spots. I have clown fry that show white spots but its from fighting with each other not ich. Some may think its ich and start treatment that may end up killing some of them.
The parasite numbers only increase if they have a host. The scenario you talk about where all fish are healthy until you add one white ich and then they all die. This is most likely a tank that was eradicated of ich at one point so even if the fish are unhealthy they survive. So now once ich enters the scene bam everything dies quickly. So if you have a small tank and several infected fish the ich numbers can get out of control as the cycle continues, I agree. But ich needs a host.
The fact that all new fish are dying points me in a different direction. Either the supplier is not taking care of the fish and they are on their last leg when bought. Or its environmental stress that eventually makes it easier for the parasite to proliferate.
I have taken many sick fish, seahorse... from club members and nursed them back to health. Fish very rarely require treatment if its ich where as other parasites do i.e. flukes require a freshwater bath. Seahorses usually require some sort of anti biotic. The most important thing is to know what you are treating. IMO anybody with fish should have a microscope. If not bring your dead fish to someone that does, so you can be sure what is killing your fish.
- Location
- The Big City
I've said it many times, even in this thread, that it mayn't even be Ich in the first place. A lot of other diseases and parasites show the same symptoms as Ich does. Which maybe the reason why when some people don't do anything the condition goes away and the fish is better, but that's probably more along the line of it not being Ich in the first place but something else.
And I have to disagree with you, many more fish die from non-treatment, basically doing nothing at all, then treating. The thing is that you tend to not to hear from the people that don't treat when their fish die, which out numbers the ones that have their fish survive by quite a lot.
This is the big thing, Ich is a parasite and it does need a host to live and multiple. In the end if something isn't done most of the time the fish will die. Now that's not always the case, some fish can be immune to the Ich or are able to live with it. Our reef tanks, with all the filter feeders, overflows, Inverts, filter socks and such can help to remove spores from the water, which can help to keep a population in check somewhat, which maybe the reason you see people with fish in reef tanks where there fish have Ich but don't die from it.
The person in this thread, who keeps put new fish into his tank and then having them die, is pointing to the problem that he has Ich in his tank and keeps adding fish without first getting rid of the Ich, it's just an accident waiting to happen and is something that you see played out over time and time again.
By the way, you're not treating the fish but killing the Ich, there is a difference. Because regardless how health the fish maybe if you place it in a tank full of Ich, or in a tank where fish have Ich, there is a good chance it will come down with Ich, and many a health fish has died from Ich in our closed systems. In the end it's all about killing the Ich off.
And I have to disagree with you, many more fish die from non-treatment, basically doing nothing at all, then treating. The thing is that you tend to not to hear from the people that don't treat when their fish die, which out numbers the ones that have their fish survive by quite a lot.
This is the big thing, Ich is a parasite and it does need a host to live and multiple. In the end if something isn't done most of the time the fish will die. Now that's not always the case, some fish can be immune to the Ich or are able to live with it. Our reef tanks, with all the filter feeders, overflows, Inverts, filter socks and such can help to remove spores from the water, which can help to keep a population in check somewhat, which maybe the reason you see people with fish in reef tanks where there fish have Ich but don't die from it.
The person in this thread, who keeps put new fish into his tank and then having them die, is pointing to the problem that he has Ich in his tank and keeps adding fish without first getting rid of the Ich, it's just an accident waiting to happen and is something that you see played out over time and time again.
By the way, you're not treating the fish but killing the Ich, there is a difference. Because regardless how health the fish maybe if you place it in a tank full of Ich, or in a tank where fish have Ich, there is a good chance it will come down with Ich, and many a health fish has died from Ich in our closed systems. In the end it's all about killing the Ich off.
- Location
- Port Jefferson station
Ich is in almost every tank, reef and fish only alike. I am sure the seasoned aquarist will agree. So this being a fact why don't all fish die in all systems with ich? I tell you why, its because healthy (Non stressed) fish can deal with it and don't allow the ich cycle to get out of control.
- Location
- Queens
Ich is only in tanks infected with ich. And if infected then so is the live stock obviously every fish will react differently but left untreated will definitely end bad. Maybe sooner, maybe later.
- Location
- Queens
There used to be a time when it was believed ich was always present in our tanks. Science has proven that to be incorrect. Ich can be irradiated from the tank. But only by taking action. It will not just go away.
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