T5 power up tripping GFCI

[jedimaster1138]

Does it make any sense that for the past 2 days when the 6 bulb portion of my T5 fixture turns on, it trips the GFCI that's on the other side of an Apex EB8 and a Belkin surge protector?

I nearly lost everything today when that happened, powering off literally everything ... heat, flow, return, lights...literally everything. If I hadn't noticed that I couldn't reach my Apex from work and ran home I'd have over a dozen dead fish and a couple grand worth of dead coral/clams/etc.

I can't think of another explanation than it's some weird T5 ballast strike thing that's fooling TWO different leviton GFCI receptacles that are 100% wired correctly. I'm almost completely settled on pulling the GFCI and putting in normal Decoras.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

it sounds like there is a ground fault when the other bulbs of the t5 fixture come on. Or maybe to much of a load on that circuit. Could also be a bad gfci outlet. What i would do is send the entire load to another gfci outlet you know is on a different breaker and see if the same happens. Trial and error.....

 

[jedimaster1138]

it sounds like there is a ground fault when the other bulbs of the t5 fixture come on. Or maybe to much of a load on that circuit. Could also be a bad gfci outlet. What i would do is send the entire load to another gfci outlet you know is on a different breaker and see if the same happens. Trial and error.....

That's exactly what I did when this first happened yesterday. I figured it was a bad GFCI receptacle. So I moved everything to the other receptacle last night, and thus the other circuit. Same thing happened today (course it was worse becuase all my eggs were in one basket)

I'm 99% sure it happened when the 6 bulbs struck, which is why I'm pointing at the T5.

It's a new fixture, I've had it for a month. The only thing I can think of is when the 6 bulb ballast strikes, there's a truck load of inrush current and that's fooling/ticking off the GFCI(s)

 

[mbg75]

If the same thing happened on a separate gfci that is on an entirely different circuit (different breaker), then something is wrong. Gfci trips on imbalance, not load.

 

[TUSI]

What is the amp circuit 15 or 20
Try in a regular outlet and see if it trips the breaker.if it trips the breaker there might be a short in the fixture. I am assuming that they don't all come on at once

 

[jedimaster1138]

If the same thing happened on a separate gfci that is on an entirely different circuit (different breaker), then something is wrong. Gfci trips on imbalance, not load.

Yup that's exactly what happened. Totally different circuits. Heck one is even a 15 A and another a 20 A. In each case the GFCI tripped off.

So is it the EB8, the surge protector, something else plugged into the EB8... I'm just pointing at the 6 bulb T5 because the timing jives with around when my 6 bulbs strike.

 

[mbg75]

Yup that's exactly what happened. Totally different circuits. Heck one is even a 15 A and another a 20 A. In each case the GFCI tripped off.

So is it the EB8, the surge protector, something else plugged into the EB8... I'm just pointing at the 6 bulb T5 because the timing jives with around when my 6 bulbs strike.

Check your apex, should tell you the time of power failure. See if that corresponds with the light time.

At this point if the light is plugged into the eb8, and the eb8 is in the surge protector, which goes into the GFCI, you have to isolate each to find the problem.

 

[TUSI]

By pass the gfci and see if the breaker trips. If its the fixture it will trip the breaker too so u will know for sure what's the problem (fixture or GFCI)

 

[Thavngr98]

I had the same issue with my ATI fixture and my reefangel and almost lost everything while I was on vaca. I put a surge protector between the controller and the light and have not had a trip since. The more I researched this it seemed to be a common issue with T5 fixtures and gfci outlets.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

how old are these units jedi and thavngr98? I have a ati sunpower 8 bulb 54w and no problems ever

 

[jedimaster1138]

It's an ATI Sunpower 8 x 80w. It's been running 1 month today now that I think about it.

I'm going to bypass the GFCI and see what happens. Guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow. SIGH

The time in question is when the 6 bulb bank turns on, which is a few hours after the 2 bulb.

There do indeed seem to be piles of hits out there about T5 ballasts tripping GFCI's.

 

[TUSI]

In my building experience its better to do a GFCI Circuit breaker then a GFCI outlet. Yes it's more money but its rated for the amperage. The outlet GFCI are not as good especially when they get old. If they are installed on top by the lights they get hot, and if they are installed in the bottom they humidity so they get more sensitive and they trip

 

[Thavngr98]

Mine is the same ati sunpower 8x54. I think the fixture is about 4 years old. I could probably look at replacing the ballasts also.

 

[Thavngr98]

I meant 6x54

 

[mbg75]

It's an ATI Sunpower 8 x 80w. It's been running 1 month today now that I think about it.

There do indeed seem to be piles of hits out there about T5 ballasts tripping GFCI's.

I have an ATI also, so you have me looking into it. It appears that the interference/leakage from multiple ballasts can trip a sensitive gfci. This is on all types of flouresent ballasts.

 

[jedimaster1138]

There's quite literally hundreds, if not thousands of threads about this online. It's apparently exceptionally common for T5's to trip GFCI's. Interesting.

 

[strgazr27]

GFCI works by measuring the current flow in and out of the load. If the current is not the same, the GFCI trips because it "Thinks" some of the current is flowing to ground. A ballast is an inductor which causes current to lag what it normally would be with a resistive load like an incandescent bulb. Large electric motors can also cause this issue at timesSome power is also stored in the ballast and the magnetic field collapses when the comes on. That collapsing magnetic field cause a current to arc across the switch in the GFCI. It can take as little as 5 mA (0.005 A) of current leakage from the hot wire to the ground to cause a GFCI to trip.

It is not uncommon for flourescent fixtures to trip GFCI outlets from time to time. If it's all the time replace the GFCI outlet with a new one as a start. If that doesn't help perhaps a call to ATI about a possible ballast issue is in order.

Best fix is to install a panel mounted GFCI as they are more robust against small transient events.

 

[edd]

GFCI works by measuring the current flow in and out of the load. If the current is not the same, the GFCI trips because it "Thinks" some of the current is flowing to ground. A ballast is an inductor which causes current to lag what it normally would be with a resistive load like an incandescent bulb. Large electric motors can also cause this issue at timesSome power is also stored in the ballast and the magnetic field collapses when the comes on. That collapsing magnetic field cause a current to arc across the switch in the GFCI. It can take as little as 5 mA (0.005 A) of current leakage from the hot wire to the ground to cause a GFCI to trip.

It is not uncommon for flourescent fixtures to trip GFCI outlets from time to time. If it's all the time replace the GFCI outlet with a new one as a start. If that doesn't help perhaps a call to ATI about a possible ballast issue is in order.

Best fix is to install a panel mounted GFCI as they are more robust against small transient events.

i think you mean voltage coming out and returning to gfi. amperage is getting used so it will change, voltage should stay the same. i think its 1/1000 of a volt difference returning to gfi will trip it. not really sure.

 

[strgazr27]

i think you mean voltage coming out and returning to gfi. amperage is getting used so it will change, voltage should stay the same. i think its 1/1000 of a volt difference returning to gfi will trip it. not really sure.

GFCI outlets trip based on current not voltage. The GFCI operates by sensing the difference between the currents in the Hot and Neutral conductors. Under normal conditions, these should be equal. However, if someone touches the Hot and a Ground such as a plumbing fixture or they are standing in water, these currents will not be equal as the path is to Ground - a ground fault - and not to the Neutral. This might occur if a short circuit developed inside an ungrounded appliance or if someone was working on a live circuit and accidentally touched a live wire. on a 120V circuit if you grabbed the hot side and a ground the voltage will not change. But the current certainly will Lol and you will know it.

 

[edd]

GFCI outlets trip based on current not voltage. The GFCI operates by sensing the difference between the currents in the Hot and Neutral conductors. Under normal conditions, these should be equal. However, if someone touches the Hot and a Ground such as a plumbing fixture or they are standing in water, these currents will not be equal as the path is to Ground - a ground fault - and not to the Neutral. This might occur if a short circuit developed inside an ungrounded appliance or if someone was working on a live circuit and accidentally touched a live wire. on a 120V circuit if you grabbed the hot side and a ground the voltage will not change. But the current certainly will Lol and you will know it.

thanks i thought it was voltage, thats what i read some where.
i thought amps are all ways changing because of usage.