Swim Bladder Needle Treatment

[Jackooze]

My Borbonious Anthias has a swim bladder problem since I purchased him one week ago. I have been doing a lot of research on this issue and using a syringe needle to remove air from the bladder is the only way. I found only two videos that show this whole process but don't understand how much air do I release from the bladder. If you take to much out you can create the reverse affect which the fish will constantly sink.

Has anyone ever performed this treatment and have some pointers ?

Here are the videos:
https://youtu.be/jdrNNd4R1Gk
https://youtu.be/P6RQPQL8MTw

 

[Serega]

Jack reach out to PaulB, I'm sure if anyone has done it it would be him.

 

[Jackooze]

Jack reach out to PaulB, I'm sure if anyone has done it it would be him.

Ok I will thanks.

 

[Jackooze]

Anyone else have any experience ?

 

[Jackooze]

Jack reach out to PaulB, I'm sure if anyone has done it it would be him.

I tried searching him and nothing came up.

 

[Jackooze]

Jack reach out to PaulB, I'm sure if anyone has done it it would be him.

Thanks. I was able to pm him

 

[Paul B]

I am not sure from here what is wrong with your fish, but if you feel it's air bladder is over extended it is an easy procedure keeping in mind that something caused it's air bladder to get like that. Usually they come in like that from collection but if he developed this later, it most likely has some other problem.
The fish also does not always recover from the procedure due to infection as there is no way to keep that wound sterile.
Your aim is to insert the needle at an angle toward it's head so you don't puncture it's scale, you want to try to get under it which is not very easy, or sometimes possible with a small fish. Remove air until the fish doesn't look like it has a lump. Remove the needle and see if the fish floats. If it does try to get the needle into the same hole and do it again. Your goal is to get the fish slightly negatively buoyant so it just about sinks. Again, with a small fish, it is not easy. Put some antiseptic on the needle hole and hope for the best. If the fish is to heavy and stays on the bottom, it can eventually add gas from it's blood to fill the bladder to where it is supposed to be.
If the fish fills up again after this procedure, something else is wrong with it. Also if something besides air comes out you are either not in it's swim bladder or it is filled with pus which would be a severe infection and the fish will probably die no matter what you do.
I have done this and the fish lived.

 

[Jackooze]

I am not sure from here what is wrong with your fish, but if you feel it's air bladder is over extended it is an easy procedure keeping in mind that something caused it's air bladder to get like that. Usually they come in like that from collection but if he developed this later, it most likely has some other problem.
The fish also does not always recover from the procedure due to infection as there is no way to keep that wound sterile.
Your aim is to insert the needle at an angle toward it's head so you don't puncture it's scale, you want to try to get under it which is not very easy, or sometimes possible with a small fish. Remove air until the fish doesn't look like it has a lump. Remove the needle and see if the fish floats. If it does try to get the needle into the same hole and do it again. Your goal is to get the fish slightly negatively buoyant so it just about sinks. Again, with a small fish, it is not easy. Put some antiseptic on the needle hole and hope for the best. If the fish is to heavy and stays on the bottom, it can eventually add gas from it's blood to fill the bladder to where it is supposed to be.
If the fish fills up again after this procedure, something else is wrong with it. Also if something besides air comes out you are either not in it's swim bladder or it is filled with pus which would be a severe infection and the fish will probably die no matter what you do.
I have done this and the fish lived.

The fish was still in the bag at the Lfs that came from their shipper. It's my fault for not waiting to see the fish swim in a tank. I am pretty convinced it is a swim bladder issue because the fish is frantically swimming to stay in one spot during feeding time otherwise when it stops it floats up until it wedges itself upside down under a rock. I will wait a few more days before trying this options. I also read that feeding green peas might help but I can't get the fish to eat it.

The fish doesn't appear to have any visible lump. How do you know then when to stop removing the air ?

Thank you for all the info!!

 

[Paul B]

You don't. You just remove a very little and see if he floats. Unless you have a fish MRI machine. A small fish has a pretty small swim bladder and a tiny bit of air will cause him to float.
Seahorses get that a lot but with them it is usually a problem in their pouch.

 

[homegrowncichlid]

Is your fish pooping normally? Its possible it ate an air bubble.

 

[Jackooze]

You don't. You just remove a very little and see if he floats. Unless you have a fish MRI machine. A small fish has a pretty small swim bladder and a tiny bit of air will cause him to float.
Seahorses get that a lot but with them it is usually a problem in their pouch.

Thank you for all the help.

 

[Jackooze]

Is your fish pooping normally? Its possible it ate an air bubble.

I am not home enough to notice but I know ever time I feed the tank he eats like crazy.

 

[Jackooze]

You don't. You just remove a very little and see if he floats. Unless you have a fish MRI machine. A small fish has a pretty small swim bladder and a tiny bit of air will cause him to float.
Seahorses get that a lot but with them it is usually a problem in their pouch.

After watching those two videos, one of them the guy just pokes the bladder twice where the other removes the air pulling the syringe. Which option do you recommend for a small fish ?

 

[Paul B]

Pull back on the plunger as the needle for a small fish is tiny and I doubt the air would come out on it's own. If it were a bug grouper, the air would come out on it's own.
I treat pop eye exactly the same way and I have never lost a patient.

 

[tacson]

I use to do that on flowerhorn fish .. I had shipment of them from Thailand atleast 2x a month 8 years ago .. few fish arrived bloated like that I just punctured it with needle and press it till all the air comes out .. for the first 2 days they will not move then after that and start eating .. back in business .. good luck ..

 

[Jackooze]

So after half hour trying to catch the Blotchy he began swimming normal. I am not sure if he was stressed out or tired but the video below shows him after.

https://youtu.be/cw21xYJ2DbE

This is how the fish is swimming now.

https://youtu.be/2VKrGwYnZUw

Am I going crazy. Is this normal ??

 

[Paul B]

He looks fine to me. They can alter the gas in their swim bladder, it just takes a little time

 

[Serega]

Now you can honestly say that you scared the bejesus out of him. :spin:
He looks ok to me too. Good luck with him, beautiful fish.

 

[Jackooze]

Thanks guys. He seems perfectly fine now. Very strange.

 

[Adamc1303]

He looks fine. I have a blotchy that is always upside down under the rocks but that's just what he does. It isn't a swim bladder issue at all. I have a few more, only one fish acts this way. But they all eat and are all in the tank for about a year now.