Miracle Mud. Is this stuff worth getting?

[hamlet]

Some people tend to either have a vendetta against EcoSystem or against the suppliers in the aquarium industry. The bottom line is that practically ALL companies in this industry charge exorbitant prices for products that can be purchased elseswhere for 100's percent less.

Ecosystem supplies Miracle Mud at a riduculous price. So what? People are willing to pay for it. What makes them so different than the other major aquarium supply manufacturers? They also do the same thing. Why do people pay $9.99 per oz for Lugols Iodine when a quart can be purchased at drug stores for $12.00? Same for Calcium supplements, vitamin C, fish food, epoxy, etc. I even buy my MH bulbs from a local commercial lighting dealer for $75 when the mail-order houses charge $120 for the same bulb. What about the prices for RO replacement cartridges??

The bottom line is that you can bash Ecosystem all you want, but don't single them out. This industry is full of examples of overpricing.

However, I have no problem with any of it. These companies perform an essential service to hobbyist that has helped the industry. It's the American way, supply & demand. These are business that have invested in our hobby and need a return on their investment. As competition heats up, Ecosystem will lower prices. There will be knockoff sumps as well. There is nothing wrong with a company "putting together a system" in one package for the average hobbyist. If you do not like it, don't buy it.

I would much rather see an inexperienced hobbyist spend more and be successful rather than wing it and have problems and thus kill a lot of livestock and get out of the hobby due to frustration.

 

[Ritteri&Bubbles]

Hamlet: i actually do agree with what was said by you completely. I wasnt actually bashing its price directly, (but was indirectly), as I was focusing on its marketing gimmick. As its nothing new. As for lots of items being overpriced, of course you are right. And you did bring up valid points on the bulbs and other drygood items. But I just feel thats a whole other category in itself vs. the topic here up for grabs so to speak on filtration and if its "worth" its asking price.

 

[reefsRcool]

it's a fraud. any material that will grow macros will work, but they go way out of their way to include the word miricle in the name like it somehow isn't yard dirt. does it work, yup. is it a scam yup. dude it's working for you but that dosn't make it a good deal to buy. i think the fact that you are going to use something else this time round proves it wasn't all that great. was it ok to use it last time because it was free? yup, i don't see anything wrong with that. but to actually recomend it to somone else and then get all defensive??? grow up

 

[Minh Nguyen]

One can get great result with a deep sand bed. Even a Sillica deep sand bed in the refugium with light. Why pay so much for something that you can do without and have the same result?
Miracle Mud. Is this stuff worth getting?
No it is not worth getting

 

[buff1]

My opinion is only worth 1 cent at this point because I am just setting up a hang on the back ecosystem filter on my 20 gallon mini (which has been running for about 20 months). From looking at the dry mud, it is definitely not back yard dirt. There may be back yard dirt mixed in, but the appearance looks more like a blend of several things. it seems completely plausible that most of this stuff comes from the ocean floor. It is somewhat sandy, somewhat silty, a little bit grayish. I also perceived the scent of bentonite when I smelled it. That would certainly be a source of trace minerals. Does anyone else think that bentonite may be in the mix? Has anyone heard about using bentonite as a supplement in reefs? As I install the system and observe changes in my tank I will report any benefits or problems.

My two cents on the whole Ecosystem company. They are clearly a marketing oriented company that is out to make a buck. For some of the posters on this board, that seems to make them virtually criminals. For others the only thing that matters is whether the system works. I fall into the latter group and find that most of the criticism simply boils down to the fact that "miracle mud" is a hokey name (it is) and it costs way too much (it does). The reef aquarium business in general is full of hideously overpriced equipment and supplements. IMHO the only thing that matters is results. If the miracle mud works, I will happily spend $10 in two years to replace some of it. If someone figures out the exact mixture in the mud and I can replicate the mix for $2, perhaps I will do that. In the meantime, I am cautiously optimistic that my tank condition will improve over the next 3 months.

 

[aquarist=broke]

How about asking a good LFS for some substrate out of the bottom of their tank? I added some to my order from Premium Aquatics for $1.

I've read that cysts and other bad things go into the substrate when there is an outbreak. If we use someone elses substrate to seed could we inherit these bad things from it?

 

[MattM]

...From looking at the dry mud, it is definitely not back yard dirt. There may be back yard dirt mixed in, but the appearance looks more like a blend of several things. it seems completely plausible that most of this stuff comes from the ocean floor...

Miracle Mud is mostly silica sand. 63% quartz by weight. Also healthy doses of metals: 70,000ppm Aluminum, 40,000ppm Iron, 3,000ppm Titanium, etc. It contains no carbonate compounds, oolitic sand grains, shell fragments, diatoms, or any other evidence that it was ever in the ocean.

The technique has been used successfully by many aquarists, but based on our analysis, photomicrographs, and tests running a system here, we are unable to attribute any of the benefits observed to the Miracle Mud product itself.

We will not carry it in our store for this reason, and because we believe the marketing used for this product includes outright lies.

This thread has the whole story.

 

[Kajjan]

It is interesting to observe how some guys puts lots and lots of energy into convincing others, with the use of figures and speculations, that their Miracle Mud doesn't work. People that hasn't used the stuff should be a little more humble in their comments about it. Especially when they are dealing with an aquarist who has great success with it. Those who have used it and are not satisfied with it seems to be hard to find. Those who have not used it and are not satisfied with it...well, I think they have other fishes to fry - if you know what I mean. But, on the other hand, I'm from Europe. Who could take me seriously? At least I'm testing before making an opinion. I'm getting my mud on tuesday!

 

[Minh Nguyen]

It is interesting to observe how some guys puts lots and lots of energy into convincing others, with the use of figures and speculations, that their Miracle Mud doesn't work. People that hasn't used the stuff should be a little more humble in their comments about it. Especially when they are dealing with an aquarist who has great success with it. Those who have used it and are not satisfied with it seems to be hard to find. Those who have not used it and are not satisfied with it...well, I think they have other fishes to fry - if you know what I mean. But, on the other hand, I'm from Europe. Who could take me seriously? At least I'm testing before making an opinion. I'm getting my mud on tuesday!

There is no reason why the 'miracle mud' would not work. It is just a deep sand bed with macroalgae for export mechanism for nutrients. The problem is with the lies and the cost of the mud.
Why would one spend a large amount of money for something that is of no improvement a much cheaper method.

 

[Kajjan]

It is interesting to observe how some guys puts lots and lots of energy into convincing others, with the use of figures and speculations, that their Miracle Mud doesn't work. People that hasn't used the stuff should be a little more humble in their comments about it. Especially when they are dealing with an aquarist who has great success with it. Those who have used it and are not satisfied with it seems to be hard to find. Those who have not used it and are not satisfied with it...well, I think they have other fishes to fry - if you know what I mean. But, on the other hand, I'm from Europe. Who could take me seriously? At least I'm testing before making an opinion. I'm getting my mud on tuesday!

There is no reason why the 'miracle mud' would not work. It is just a deep sand bed with macroalgae for export mechanism for nutrients. The problem is with the lies and the cost of the mud.
Why would one spend a large amount of money for something that is of no improvement a much cheaper method.

What are the lies about? I must have missed something there. Do you mean what they say the mud consists of? It doesn't bother me. It can be your backyard dirt or anything else. If it works then it's totally ok with me. And I'm willing to pay that money to get something that works that well. But, if it turns out not to be working I'll be disapointed of course and then I've learned that lesson. If it is just backyard dirt as some guys says in the various forums, why don't they start diggin and sellin?

 

[Anonymous]

why don't they start diggin and sellin?

maybe because Matt and Tom have profesional integrity?

 

[Anonymous]

why does it work? its the rat droppings.

 

[Minh Nguyen]

..........
What are the lies about? I must have missed something there. Do you mean what they say the mud consists of? It doesn't bother me. It can be your backyard dirt or anything else. If it works then it's totally ok with me. And I'm willing to pay that money to get something that works that well. But, if it turns out not to be working I'll be disapointed of course and then I've learned that lesson. If it is just backyard dirt as some guys says in the various forums, why don't they start diggin and sellin?

Yes, you have missed the point complety.
Who said it does not work? Not I. The problem is for a small fraction of the cost, I can have something that work just as well if not better, and not support people with questionable, to me at least, integrety.
There are retailers who would refuse to sell this stuff. Maybe to them, money is not everything. Obviously, to other it is. There are at last count several brands claiming to have various 'muds' on the market.

Minh

 

[Anonymous]

Miraculous rat droppings. :lol:

 

[dizzy]

What ever gets you through the night. It's alright. It's alright.

 

[danmhippo]

Kajjan, I have used back yard dirt in my Freshwater planted tank with success, in fact, much better then LFS sand. it's not the fact it(MM) does not work, but the part about selling cheap dirt, repackaging it with a fancy name, and charging people an arm and a leg, yet exaggerated the power of the dirt cheap product (What difference they have from companies packaging sugar water and claiming them as "Reef essential"?). In many tanks of mine, I used regular sand with caulerpa. Same result if not better.

Yes, I was an ex-MM user many many many years ago. So I think that makes my statements worth something since I did use MM as well as regular sand, live mud, live mud + regular sand, and now Southdown growing caulerpa. The only thing I want to make clear is that there is absolutely no difference IMO between growing caulerpa with MM or any other sugarfine or silty subtrate. In fact, I've even experimented iron tablet in live sand trying to boost caulerpa growth.....(Don't bother trying that, hair algae and diatom responded much faster to the iron releases then caulerpa......)

 

[wombat1]

"Miracle Dump" is about the funniest thing I've seen in a while. My feeling is, listen to the pros. The people who have been doing it the longest (not me!!) probably have the most valuable opinion. I'll undercut "Miracle Dump" and sell my "Miracle Gin" for only $1 a lb. Makes your corals grow faster. Hey, if you haven't tried it on your own sytem, you can't knock it.

 

[wombat1]

"Miracle Dump" is about the funniest thing I've seen in a while. My feeling is, listen to the pros. The people who have been doing it the longest (not me!!) probably have the most valuable opinion. I'll undercut "Miracle Dump" and sell my "Miracle Gin" for only $1 a lb. Makes your corals grow faster. Hey, if you haven't tried it on your own sytem, you can't knock it.

 

[Anonymous]

this is just like late nite tv same commercials over and over.

 

[Kajjan]

this is just like late nite tv same commercials over and over.

And you are the stand up comedian in the Late Night Show?