Liquid Nitrogen to cool tank?
- Thread starter Nathan1
- Start date
I think you could probably rig something up but you would have to run it through a pipe that could withstand the stress of internal temps of <-300F and external temps of 80F - Im not sure if such a material exists, also, I think you need a license to store liquid nitrogen.
Good thought though, maybe something similar with dry ice would work ?
Brian
Good thought though, maybe something similar with dry ice would work ?
Brian
You could always just float a small plastic container/bag in your sump/tank and throw some ice cubes into it every few hours!
I don't think Liquid Nitrogen would be practical.. not to mention dangerous & expensive. You would probably pay 10 times more for a LN containment unit than you would for a large capacity chiller!
I don't think Liquid Nitrogen would be practical.. not to mention dangerous & expensive. You would probably pay 10 times more for a LN containment unit than you would for a large capacity chiller!
Liquid nitrogen is very dangerous.
Nevermind that if you touch it you could do unbelivable damage to yourself, but any type of accidental rupture or spillage of the liquid nitrogen tank would quickly displace all of the oxygen in the room.
Not to long ago there was a worker who died here in NYC at the Cornell Med. Center when a liquid nitrogen tank in the room he was working in either ruptured or was knocked over (dont remember exactlly) and he suffocated. Very sad.
Nevermind that if you touch it you could do unbelivable damage to yourself, but any type of accidental rupture or spillage of the liquid nitrogen tank would quickly displace all of the oxygen in the room.
Not to long ago there was a worker who died here in NYC at the Cornell Med. Center when a liquid nitrogen tank in the room he was working in either ruptured or was knocked over (dont remember exactlly) and he suffocated. Very sad.
There is really no way to use liquid nitrogen to cool the water without spending A LOT OF MONEY!!! I was a fuels specialist in the Air Force and delt with that stuff all the time. It is very dangerous in gas and liquid form. We used to take a small container of it, put things in it and throw them on the ground. The "easy" way to disect a frog. And if you got a leak and the wife went to the basement to do laundry or something its lights out! Nitrogen settles in the lowest spots of the room and has no scent. Not to mention it expands to many many times its volume when converted to gas form. Please, unless you really know what your doing dont risk it. The "coilsikle" thing would work but you would have to keep purging the nitrogen through it and the amount you'd have to use would outweigh the cost. Unless of course you could make some sort of recirculation system for it.
Freeze a gallon milk jug of water to use the same way as the baggie full of ice cubes. It will last Much, much longer, and could be re-frozen. Have one in the sump and one in the freezer, then just swap each morning and evening. Cheap and easy so you don't loose much by trying.
having seen what nitrogen (l) does in chem and bio classes, I wouldn't touch it unless I had to
. It can be very useful, but things go wrong all the time with it (one of the TAs went to the ER) and the fish might be hurt more then with a higher heat. I like the gallon of water idea.
Not practical, danger asside - either you need a constantly replace the liquid nitrogen, or re-compress/chill it (much harder than using freon or other airconditioning fluids - as a chiller does).
I really like the frozen milk jug idea! Much more cheap, efficient, quiet, and probabably more reliable than a chiller. Be a pain if you took a vacation over the summer though...
I really like the frozen milk jug idea! Much more cheap, efficient, quiet, and probabably more reliable than a chiller. Be a pain if you took a vacation over the summer though...
I concur with the above...bad idea. I really wanted to comemnt on the dry ice idea. This is also very, very bad. You must not realize that dry ice is frozen carbon dioxide (CO2). Dry ice does not melt, it sublimes. Which means it goes straight from a solid to a gaseous form while skipping the liquid form altogether. This won't work as a cooling method since a gas is released, not an aqueaous solution. Besides that, your plant-life would love ya for it, but your fish would probably croak and the pH would sink faster than lawnmower blenny. I live in AZ and hit temps of 82 in the summer on my 80 gal reef. I used a $7.00, 6 inch, clip-on, circulating fan from Walmart to blow air directly on the sumps surface water. Temp dropped to 80 degrees in one day. This sure beats battling with water displacement and the hassles of ice. Give it a try.
Cheers,
Scott
Cheers,
Scott
Having worked as a chemist for a few years and having used liquid nitrogen(LN)quite extensivly, there are two problems with the LN. The first one was previously mentioned, and that it displaces room air very quickly when it evaporates. Thus creating a hypoxia (no oxygen) problem. However, with this application, you probably wouldn't use enough to cause a big problem (although still something to consider). The second problem is the more serious one. If you are using any kind of open system to room air, then your problem is that LN is cold enough to cause condensation of oxygen to Liquid Oxygen (LO). LO is used in the space shuttle as an oxidizer for the fuel (there is no oxygen in space and it has to come from somewhere). LO is extremely explosive and when it goes from liquid to gas, it expands much more violently than does nitrogen doing the same. In fact it is an explosive expansion (I have witnessed this personally being across the room when this happened to someone else). Now, couple the explosive expansion with a hot filament from a MH lamp that bursts when the oxygen explodes, now we have fire. A very hot and fast burning fire with lots of oxygen and fuel (your house)! Now you have no tank, no fish, no corals and no family because everyone has been burned to a crisp. I would scrap the LN idea (although its nice to see someone brain-storming new ideas).
The dry ice idea could be done by using a slurry of dry ice and isopropyl alcohol. This slurry will cool to (-78) C. But again is the fire hazard with the alcohol, not to mention you have to have specialized containers to hold the mixture to prevent condensation and these are very expensive.
I would stick with the chiller or milk jug method for now. But keep thinking, thats how new things are invented.
Jay
The dry ice idea could be done by using a slurry of dry ice and isopropyl alcohol. This slurry will cool to (-78) C. But again is the fire hazard with the alcohol, not to mention you have to have specialized containers to hold the mixture to prevent condensation and these are very expensive.
I would stick with the chiller or milk jug method for now. But keep thinking, thats how new things are invented.
Jay
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