Rio 600 Failures ?
- Thread starter 24Tom
- Start date
I promised myself I'd stay out of the Rio frays, but here goes anyway against my better judgement. The short answer is no. All brands of pumps fail, some catastrophically, that's where the problem is.
I did a survey for another list about 1 1/2 years ago on pumps and failures.
Out of all the pumps surveyed only the larger Rio pumps ( the 2500 ) failed catastrophically though other brands had a higher failure rate.
If there is enough interest or if this UBB wants to conduct one I'd be willing to help out on another one but it was a real PITA.
Regards,
David Mohr
I did a survey for another list about 1 1/2 years ago on pumps and failures.
Out of all the pumps surveyed only the larger Rio pumps ( the 2500 ) failed catastrophically though other brands had a higher failure rate.
If there is enough interest or if this UBB wants to conduct one I'd be willing to help out on another one but it was a real PITA.
Regards,
David Mohr
I have had the failure thing happen just a week ago and it was a 900. Ive since bought 4 maxi-jets. BUT... i have had a rio 90 for about 5 years and its still running like a top! One of the best power heads Ive ever seen! I even had it on a wavemaker for 2.5 years. I think its just the limitations of the strength of the epoxy on the big ones. I would probably buy another big rio again but would definately re-enforce the top by taking the cap off drilling a hole in it and then filling it with silicone or liquid 2 part epoxy. That seems to be the central point of failure for these things. People do tend to hang these things by their cords into the tank. Hey!!!sounds like a new thread to me!
I am thinking I might get some MaxiJets too. I have noticed my 800's (one on my AquaC and the other 2 for movement) stop from time to time. Tonight my skimmer stopped for no reason. I took it out and ran some fresh H2O on it and it was fine. It seems like i have to clean it at least 2 times a week. Where is a good MO to buy some from?
I asked about this a while ago to the CPR technical support. Here was the reply I got. Basically I think you are safe, and I have 3 of them and have had no problems. To be safe, change them every couple of years.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
hanks for writing. There has been a lot of talk about the use of Rio pumps
lately on the Internet and it has created quite a stir, but I'll be honest in
saying that there seems to be a lot of people feeding on this bad press without
actually experiencing the problems themselves. One issue that you addressed
was
the Rios leaking oil. There is no oil in the Rio powerheads. Most external or
seal less pumps use oil in their pumps, but the Rios do not. We have used many
different pumps with our skimmers, including OTTO and Maxi-Jet and none have
given the performance as the Rios. At a recent conference I was at I went
around
to look at the different skimmers on the market and as far as hang on models
almost all used the Rios, as well as the majority of the sump models. For this
reason you can probably see that the majority of pumps being used as far as
filtration purposes are probably the Rios, which will increase their exposure
hen it comes to faulty units. As far as problems go, what are you
experiencing
with the Rio 600 on your Bak-Pak? Most people complain about having to clean
the
unit often to perform at full capacity. One thing I do with all my Rio Venturi
powerheads is when I top off my tanks with water I microwave a couple of cups
of
water so that it's pretty hot and allow the venturi to draw in this water.
Doing
this once or twice a week gets me consistent performance out of all the Rios I
have, even when I get lazy and don't clean the powerheads for a couple of
months.
Concerning using a different powerhead on the Bak-Pak it is possible to use the
Maxi-Jets with their intake venturi (sold separately). These will fit on the
intake tube of the Bak-Pak 2.
Thanks again for using the Bak-Paks and for your questions and concerns, and
please let us know if you have any further questions as well.
Ted
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
and also
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
s far as problems found with the Bak-Paks using the Rio 600 I haven't yet
heard of any
failing and killing tank specimens. I did have a person that heard a strange
noise and
then noticed a small bit of smoke come from the tank, at which point the pump
stopped
working of course, but no meltdowns yet. The epoxy coating on the inside is
more than
likely what people are seeing as an oil slick. The problem that I hear most is
that
the pump wouldn't start up after being shut down without having to jostle it or
open
the impeller plate. I think Rio realizes this as they now have a tag on the cord that
says they are not recommended for wavemakers. Most of the time the problems
with
restarting is due to lack of maintenance on the impeller, the impeller shaft
and the
impeller cavity. Another complaint that I spoke of before was the airflow
going into
the powerhead. The little elbows that the airlines are attached to clog fairly
easily
with calcium and salt creep. One thing we started doing was to check these
elbows
before going out to make sure that the elbows were entirely clear, as the molds
that
were used to make the elbows seemed to be partially blocked on some of the Rio
600's.
I use a small drill bit to ensure mine are as open as possible without damaging
the elbow.
Aside from using the Rios on our products, we also are a distributor of them as
well.
Rio has a 6 month warranty on their powerheads. Any returns that we get we
send back
to the American distributor of Rio for replacement and also so that they can
find
solutions to any problems occurring with the pumps. Here is where part of the
problem
is. We hardly get any of these pumps returned back to us. Of the thousands of
pumps
we have sent out in the last two months we have only had one come back that was
defective, which was a larger pump (I believe a Rio 3100). Unfortunately when
we
contact the American distributor and tell them of all the complaints that have
been
going on they are concerned because they have little to go on as hardly any are
being
returned. The pumps that do get returned tend to be the larger models and not
in the
600 series. We suspect that most people are just throwing away their defective
pumps.
Through our bulletin board we urge those who have defective pumps to return
them so the
manufacturer can find out what's going on. It's a bit frustrating on our end
as we
want our products to perform to their fullest ability, and if the powerheads
used on
them are a problem we would want it corrected immediately or we would
definitely seek
an alternate source, but we do need to have an idea of what's going on. I know
if any
of the powerheads I own causes the same problems that I've seen on the Net I
would eturn it immediately.
Thanks again for writing, and please let us know if you have any questions or
comments.
Ted
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
hanks for writing. There has been a lot of talk about the use of Rio pumps
lately on the Internet and it has created quite a stir, but I'll be honest in
saying that there seems to be a lot of people feeding on this bad press without
actually experiencing the problems themselves. One issue that you addressed
was
the Rios leaking oil. There is no oil in the Rio powerheads. Most external or
seal less pumps use oil in their pumps, but the Rios do not. We have used many
different pumps with our skimmers, including OTTO and Maxi-Jet and none have
given the performance as the Rios. At a recent conference I was at I went
around
to look at the different skimmers on the market and as far as hang on models
almost all used the Rios, as well as the majority of the sump models. For this
reason you can probably see that the majority of pumps being used as far as
filtration purposes are probably the Rios, which will increase their exposure
hen it comes to faulty units. As far as problems go, what are you
experiencing
with the Rio 600 on your Bak-Pak? Most people complain about having to clean
the
unit often to perform at full capacity. One thing I do with all my Rio Venturi
powerheads is when I top off my tanks with water I microwave a couple of cups
of
water so that it's pretty hot and allow the venturi to draw in this water.
Doing
this once or twice a week gets me consistent performance out of all the Rios I
have, even when I get lazy and don't clean the powerheads for a couple of
months.
Concerning using a different powerhead on the Bak-Pak it is possible to use the
Maxi-Jets with their intake venturi (sold separately). These will fit on the
intake tube of the Bak-Pak 2.
Thanks again for using the Bak-Paks and for your questions and concerns, and
please let us know if you have any further questions as well.
Ted
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
and also
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
s far as problems found with the Bak-Paks using the Rio 600 I haven't yet
heard of any
failing and killing tank specimens. I did have a person that heard a strange
noise and
then noticed a small bit of smoke come from the tank, at which point the pump
stopped
working of course, but no meltdowns yet. The epoxy coating on the inside is
more than
likely what people are seeing as an oil slick. The problem that I hear most is
that
the pump wouldn't start up after being shut down without having to jostle it or
open
the impeller plate. I think Rio realizes this as they now have a tag on the cord that
says they are not recommended for wavemakers. Most of the time the problems
with
restarting is due to lack of maintenance on the impeller, the impeller shaft
and the
impeller cavity. Another complaint that I spoke of before was the airflow
going into
the powerhead. The little elbows that the airlines are attached to clog fairly
easily
with calcium and salt creep. One thing we started doing was to check these
elbows
before going out to make sure that the elbows were entirely clear, as the molds
that
were used to make the elbows seemed to be partially blocked on some of the Rio
600's.
I use a small drill bit to ensure mine are as open as possible without damaging
the elbow.
Aside from using the Rios on our products, we also are a distributor of them as
well.
Rio has a 6 month warranty on their powerheads. Any returns that we get we
send back
to the American distributor of Rio for replacement and also so that they can
find
solutions to any problems occurring with the pumps. Here is where part of the
problem
is. We hardly get any of these pumps returned back to us. Of the thousands of
pumps
we have sent out in the last two months we have only had one come back that was
defective, which was a larger pump (I believe a Rio 3100). Unfortunately when
we
contact the American distributor and tell them of all the complaints that have
been
going on they are concerned because they have little to go on as hardly any are
being
returned. The pumps that do get returned tend to be the larger models and not
in the
600 series. We suspect that most people are just throwing away their defective
pumps.
Through our bulletin board we urge those who have defective pumps to return
them so the
manufacturer can find out what's going on. It's a bit frustrating on our end
as we
want our products to perform to their fullest ability, and if the powerheads
used on
them are a problem we would want it corrected immediately or we would
definitely seek
an alternate source, but we do need to have an idea of what's going on. I know
if any
of the powerheads I own causes the same problems that I've seen on the Net I
would eturn it immediately.
Thanks again for writing, and please let us know if you have any questions or
comments.
Ted
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry about the (lack of) formatting. The hot water trick has saved me a lot of work in the last few months.
The Rio 2100 seems to be the most problematic, and the larger ones. The smaller ones have shocked people.
Get ground probes and GFCIs if you don't have them already!!!
The Rio 2100 seems to be the most problematic, and the larger ones. The smaller ones have shocked people.
Get ground probes and GFCIs if you don't have them already!!!
jethro- does the Rio make more noise than them with the venturi shut off, or submerged? I'd doubt it. I have the stock Rio 600 on the MRT in my bedroom, and it's fairly loud. If the venturi gets blocked, it's silent.
My bet is that any pump with an air venturi will be loud, period.
My bet is that any pump with an air venturi will be loud, period.
I've got a BakCrap on my tank right now and it's doing OK finally w/ the airstone mod. I started out w/ a Rio 600 and tried upgrading to a Rio 800 and when I did that I found that the pump made a loud buzzing noise. It was about submerged about 2" from the surface of the water. When the air intake was plugged the pump stopped buzzing but when the intake was NOT plugged it buzzed like a chainsaw on low. The one difference I noted between the impellor of the 600 and 800 was that the 600 had a solid impellor and the 800 had a hinged impellor. If I used the 600 impellor in either pump it was silent. If I used the hinged impellor in either pump it buzzed. For some reason either the hinged impellor was hitting the sides of the pump or the impellor chamber was cavitating. I'm leaning toward the cavitation theory as when I removed the air source the buzzing went away. You may try adjusting your needlevalves to minimize the buzzing sound. Just a thought...
FWIW, from all the UBB's, newsgroups, and e-mail lists that I've read it really seems like the larger Rio pumps have the problem with catastrophic failure whereas the pumps below a Rio 1000 have no real problems other than they just stop working. Above that pump size, I've seen a number of reports from people that have them catastrophically fail on them -- sometimes taking out a number of tank inhabitants with them.
Heh, just my $0.02...
liquid
FWIW, from all the UBB's, newsgroups, and e-mail lists that I've read it really seems like the larger Rio pumps have the problem with catastrophic failure whereas the pumps below a Rio 1000 have no real problems other than they just stop working. Above that pump size, I've seen a number of reports from people that have them catastrophically fail on them -- sometimes taking out a number of tank inhabitants with them.
Heh, just my $0.02...
liquid
When I was doing commercial tank maintenance we maintained a reef tank that could grow coraline algae on ANYTHING. The two Rio 600s he used had pink fittings and you had to work to get the hoses back on if you took them off. Needless to say they rarely got a full service. I'd run hot water through them and pray. When I started they were already purple, a year later when I moved up here they were still running fine. I use Rio 600s on both of my bakpaks.
The only problem we ever had with the Rio pumps (and the boss loved them, he used them in everything) was with one that was a: hanging by its cord into the tank, b: running a wave maker paddle, c: a 2500 that zapped the living daylights out of me when I was trying to get it working. In my opinion the power head was abused in the first place. Not that I didn't cuss and almost fall off the 6 foot ladder I was using to clean the 1500 gallon tank it was in, lol.
I've had hagen power heads freeze up for no reason, penguins that just simply eventually stop no matter how beautifully kept the impellor is, but I honestly feel like I got more than my moneys worth out of them.
Never had a Rio 600 fail on me with proper maintenance or even without. HTH
Barbie
The only problem we ever had with the Rio pumps (and the boss loved them, he used them in everything) was with one that was a: hanging by its cord into the tank, b: running a wave maker paddle, c: a 2500 that zapped the living daylights out of me when I was trying to get it working. In my opinion the power head was abused in the first place. Not that I didn't cuss and almost fall off the 6 foot ladder I was using to clean the 1500 gallon tank it was in, lol.
I've had hagen power heads freeze up for no reason, penguins that just simply eventually stop no matter how beautifully kept the impellor is, but I honestly feel like I got more than my moneys worth out of them.
Never had a Rio 600 fail on me with proper maintenance or even without. HTH
Barbie
Liquid,
Ditto everything you said. Same problem with the 800, same solution.
On the larger Rios... on another tank, we have had a 2100 running like a top for about a year and half. No probs at all. I realize that's not very long in the grand scheme of things, and will probably replace it soon just because of everything we've heard, and read about them. Although, at this time I have no complaints on the Rio 2100.
Anemone of the State,
It concerned me reading about the problems with the Rios on wave-makers, and then I remembered that personally, our wavemaker is hooked to the maxi-jets in the main tank... the 2100 is in the sump. Thanks for all that new information, interesting nonetheless!
Good luck with these survery's Guys! I'll be looking forward to reading about your findings.
Connie
Ditto everything you said. Same problem with the 800, same solution.
On the larger Rios... on another tank, we have had a 2100 running like a top for about a year and half. No probs at all. I realize that's not very long in the grand scheme of things, and will probably replace it soon just because of everything we've heard, and read about them. Although, at this time I have no complaints on the Rio 2100.
Anemone of the State,
It concerned me reading about the problems with the Rios on wave-makers, and then I remembered that personally, our wavemaker is hooked to the maxi-jets in the main tank... the 2100 is in the sump. Thanks for all that new information, interesting nonetheless!
Good luck with these survery's Guys! I'll be looking forward to reading about your findings.
Connie
Chucker...
No venturi involved here. This is just a Rio 600 attached to a Aqua C Remora. As soon as I attach it, it sounds like a buz saw. Trying to use tubing to attach it, makes very little difference in the noise and makes using the skimmer box more difficult with my water level.
All I have to do to make the thing get louder is just touch the side of of it. What makes this worse is that the skimmer box I bought for the thing has a scew that goes against the side of it to hold it on. Therefore using the skimmer box makes it louder yet.
If I shut the powerhead off for a while it will be quiet for a while when I turn it back on. Eventually it sounds like a miniature buzz saw again.
If I didn't need my other power heads to operate the other equipment I would switch right now.
Also I have been reluctant to change it because I blew $30 on the "custom made" skimmer box when I bought my Remora. In my opinion, the Remora sucks without the skimmer box in place. I am hoping that replacing the RIO with a more powerful pump will eliminate the need for the skimmmer box.
I think the Remora is a great skimmer but I think the RIO is a cheap, noisy pump. I have my RIO on a timer to make the living room more enjoyable during evening hours. I would like to be able to run it 24-7.
No venturi involved here. This is just a Rio 600 attached to a Aqua C Remora. As soon as I attach it, it sounds like a buz saw. Trying to use tubing to attach it, makes very little difference in the noise and makes using the skimmer box more difficult with my water level.
All I have to do to make the thing get louder is just touch the side of of it. What makes this worse is that the skimmer box I bought for the thing has a scew that goes against the side of it to hold it on. Therefore using the skimmer box makes it louder yet.
If I shut the powerhead off for a while it will be quiet for a while when I turn it back on. Eventually it sounds like a miniature buzz saw again.
If I didn't need my other power heads to operate the other equipment I would switch right now.
Also I have been reluctant to change it because I blew $30 on the "custom made" skimmer box when I bought my Remora. In my opinion, the Remora sucks without the skimmer box in place. I am hoping that replacing the RIO with a more powerful pump will eliminate the need for the skimmmer box.
I think the Remora is a great skimmer but I think the RIO is a cheap, noisy pump. I have my RIO on a timer to make the living room more enjoyable during evening hours. I would like to be able to run it 24-7.
All together, My Hagen 804,402,301 and Maxijet 1200 make less noise than the Rio 600 on my Remora. Actually I have to strain my ears to hear them running.
Judging from the sound of my Rio 600. The manufacturer should get into designing those little toy motercycle engines for kids' bicycles. You don't see too much of those these days.
I am currently looking for a replacement to get rid of the noise. I am also bummed that the skimmer box I bought will be useless without the 600.
Any suggestions on the best powerhead or pump to replace my Rio?
[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: jethro ]
Judging from the sound of my Rio 600. The manufacturer should get into designing those little toy motercycle engines for kids' bicycles. You don't see too much of those these days.
I am currently looking for a replacement to get rid of the noise. I am also bummed that the skimmer box I bought will be useless without the 600.
Any suggestions on the best powerhead or pump to replace my Rio?
[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: jethro ]
I have had a Bakpak for close to 3 years. In those three years I have replaced my Rio 600 FOUR TIMES!! Twice was because, no matter how well I cleaned it, it didnt work very well; twice because it died on me. When the 2 died on me they just died (or actually made lots of noise and didnt work worth a crap). None of them polluted the tank.
Polluting the tank or not, four times is, in my opinion WAY two often in three years. Is there another PH that will work on the Bakpak?
ND
Polluting the tank or not, four times is, in my opinion WAY two often in three years. Is there another PH that will work on the Bakpak?
ND
I have a 600 on a skimmer and a 2500 as a return that have been running great for 14 months with no maintenance . After reading about the failures, I believe I will change the 2500 to a Mag 9. I can't stand the thought of loosing my occupants to my poor judgement.
Please, please. please everybody use GFCIs. They will save your life from ground fault electric shocks. Also in conjunction with ground probes should turn everything off instead of having a rio pump meltdown. But you should have these regardless of whether you have rios or not!!!
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